Thinking is the ability of mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:08 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:36 pm
It seems like you are saying each mind can think BUT at the same time you need a bunch of minds to think. Which is it?
As I argue thinking is the ability of the mind since otherwise thinking was impossible but the existence of other minds facilitates and expedites the processes of thinking. The same thing happens between two humans, brain storm.
'you', "bahman", are one of the worst 'arguers' here. But this is partly, maybe mostly, just due to your language barrier, I think.
The language barrier, maybe.
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:08 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:36 pm A quite separate issue: I don't think there is a conscious mind that knows X and knows it tomorrow or that does X or is me and there are other minds (in me?) that know and do other things. I think consciousness can move around in all parts or areas. So, sometimes I am aware of my anger, say, in relation to a friend, while, in that moment I am not conscious that I am afraid of my shame. But later, when more relaxed I am able to feel the shame and the fear of the shame. We have tremendous fear of noticing portions of ourselves and this creates a kind of ad hoc unconscious which does contain certain things. But this is ad hoc. They are all me.
A conscious mind can do a single task at any time. We are doing multi-task all the time, like deriving when listening to music and chatting with the passangers. Therefore several minds are involved in such a process.
Let us NOT forget you ALSO CLAIM that it was A mind involved in the process of creating the whole Universe, Itself, correct?
I didn't say so. I don't believe in God.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

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Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:28 am
bahman wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:14 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:36 am


OK, I was orginally responding to...

This seems to posit certain functions for the conscious mind and other minds that take care of other things, the unconscious.
But to me these minds do not have discrete functions. Rather what one is conscious of shifts over time. What is unconscious today may be conscious tomorrow. And vice versa. Like my hatred of my boss (there mere feeling of which threat4ens me so I don't want to notice it) may be something that I am conscious of sometimes and must consciously try to distract myself from, for example, and may at other times be guiding my behavior without my noticing. It's not Mind 4 handles my unpleasant feelings about my boss and my conscious mind is not aware, but rather that my conscious mind 'moves around'. And further, I would argue, the conscios mind is always aware, to a tiny degree, that theses suppressed things are present. It actively choose to avoid them.
First, all minds are conscious.
Of 'what', EXACTLY? And,
Conscious of their surrounding.
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:28 am How many of these mind things are there, EXACTLY?
I have an argument for two.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

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bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:35 pm
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:08 pm
As I argue thinking is the ability of the mind since otherwise thinking was impossible but the existence of other minds facilitates and expedites the processes of thinking. The same thing happens between two humans, brain storm.
'you', "bahman", are one of the worst 'arguers' here. But this is partly, maybe mostly, just due to your language barrier, I think.
The language barrier, maybe.
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:08 pm
A conscious mind can do a single task at any time. We are doing multi-task all the time, like deriving when listening to music and chatting with the passangers. Therefore several minds are involved in such a process.
Let us NOT forget you ALSO CLAIM that it was A mind involved in the process of creating the whole Universe, Itself, correct?
I didn't say so.
So, what did you say so, EXACTLY?
bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:35 pm I don't believe in God.
I NEVER said, NOR even implied, that you did.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:38 pm
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:28 am
bahman wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:14 pm
First, all minds are conscious.
Of 'what', EXACTLY? And,
Conscious of their surrounding.
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:28 am How many of these mind things are there, EXACTLY?
I have an argument for two.
AND, as I have ALREADY SHOWN, and PROVED True, 'that argument' is NOT sound and valid, and is just PURE ILLOGICAL.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:00 pm There is no strong emergence (this is discussed here). This means that the brain cannot possibly have a property that the parts don't have. The brain thinks. Therefore, thinking is the property of parts/minds (mind being irreducible substance with abilities to experience, think, decide and cause).
Well, given that you mention the unconscious mind as one of the parts, it does not share, then, the emergent property of consciousness, by definition. Even it if can carry out some/many functions.
In such a system, the brain, for example, we have a hierarchy of minds, the conscious mind which is you, and subconscious minds which are other minds that take care of other things.
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Fri May 13, 2022 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
popeye1945
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by popeye1945 »

Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

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Age wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:35 am
bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:35 pm
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 am

'you', "bahman", are one of the worst 'arguers' here. But this is partly, maybe mostly, just due to your language barrier, I think.
The language barrier, maybe.
Age wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 am

Let us NOT forget you ALSO CLAIM that it was A mind involved in the process of creating the whole Universe, Itself, correct?
I didn't say so.
So, what did you say so, EXACTLY?
bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:35 pm I don't believe in God.
I NEVER said, NOR even implied, that you did.
You don't know what I am talking about. Do you?
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:56 am
bahman wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:00 pm There is no strong emergence (this is discussed here). This means that the brain cannot possibly have a property that the parts don't have. The brain thinks. Therefore, thinking is the property of parts/minds (mind being irreducible substance with abilities to experience, think, decide and cause).
Well, given that you mention the unconscious mind as one of the parts, it does not share, then, the emergent property of consciousness, by definition. Even it if can carry out some/many functions.
In such a system, the brain, for example, we have a hierarchy of minds, the conscious mind which is you, and subconscious minds which are other minds that take care of other things.
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by bahman »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
The mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pm
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
that doesn't seem to relate to what I wrote.
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:16 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
The mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.
Yeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:35 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pm
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
that doesn't seem to relate to what I wrote.
It is. Consciousness is the ability of the mind, the ability to experience.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:37 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:16 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
The mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.
Yeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
The subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:42 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:37 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:16 pm
The mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.
Yeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
The subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?
Then it is not subconscious. and then why must it be conscious. It merely needs to be affected by things.
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:41 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:35 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pm
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
that doesn't seem to relate to what I wrote.
It is. Consciousness is the ability of the mind, the ability to experience.
I think it's a property, not an ability.
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