The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

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RCSaunders wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:55 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:31 pm What makes an organism an organism if it is not the very specific arrangement of elementary particles? Change the arrangement and the organism is not alive anymore.
You can have exactly the same, "arrangement," of elementary particles without there being life. See my article, "The Nature of Life."
That is not acceptable. If the arrangement is not the thing that makes something alive then what it is?
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RCSaunders
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

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bahman wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:29 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:55 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:31 pm What makes an organism an organism if it is not the very specific arrangement of elementary particles? Change the arrangement and the organism is not alive anymore.
You can have exactly the same, "arrangement," of elementary particles without there being life. See my article, "The Nature of Life."
That is not acceptable. If the arrangement is not the thing that makes something alive then what it is?
Life is only a property. Nothing else, "makes," organisms have life as a property. Not arrangement of non-living physical entities will ever result in life. All physical entities have mass as a property. Nothing else makes entities have mass.

Your didn't read the article.

I've already answered this question in my comments to you here.
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bahman
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:25 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:29 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:55 pm
You can have exactly the same, "arrangement," of elementary particles without there being life. See my article, "The Nature of Life."
That is not acceptable. If the arrangement is not the thing that makes something alive then what it is?
Life is only a property. Nothing else, "makes," organisms have life as a property. Not arrangement of non-living physical entities will ever result in life. All physical entities have mass as a property. Nothing else makes entities have mass.

Your didn't read the article.

I've already answered this question in my comments to you here.
Is your mass a function of your parts?
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RCSaunders
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:18 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:25 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:29 pm
That is not acceptable. If the arrangement is not the thing that makes something alive then what it is?
Life is only a property. Nothing else, "makes," organisms have life as a property. Not arrangement of non-living physical entities will ever result in life. All physical entities have mass as a property. Nothing else makes entities have mass.

Your didn't read the article.

I've already answered this question in my comments to you here.
Is your mass a function of your parts?
Of course not. Neither is life or consciousness a function of any parts. Properties are not functions of something else.
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bahman
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:53 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:18 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:25 pm
Life is only a property. Nothing else, "makes," organisms have life as a property. Not arrangement of non-living physical entities will ever result in life. All physical entities have mass as a property. Nothing else makes entities have mass.

Your didn't read the article.

I've already answered this question in my comments to you here.
Is your mass a function of your parts?
Of course not. Neither is life or consciousness a function of any parts. Properties are not functions of something else.
So your mass is not a function/sum of the mass of your parts?
popeye1945
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:08 pm They say that emergence of consciousness is like the emergence of salt from Chloride and Sodium. They however forget to answer how salt emerges from Chloride and Sodium. In another word, how salt could possibly have a property that parts don't have. So the problem of emergence is not understood well. The second problem is due to the fact that Chloride and Sodium are not irreducible parts therefore they should not consider them in the problem of emergence.
bahman,
I believe consciousness emerged with life, certainly, there was body consciousness before there was a brain stem, before there were prefrontal lobes. This seems undeniable when one considers the brain evolved from the inside out. I think too, that the term consciousness must be defined and agreed upon in order to have a reasonably intelligent conversation.
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RCSaunders
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:53 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:18 pm
Is your mass a function of your parts?
Of course not. Neither is life or consciousness a function of any parts. Properties are not functions of something else.
So your mass is not a function/sum of the mass of your parts?
You are confusing weight and mass.
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bahman
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Re: The mistake people make when it comes to emergence of consciousness

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:44 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:53 pm
Of course not. Neither is life or consciousness a function of any parts. Properties are not functions of something else.
So your mass is not a function/sum of the mass of your parts?
You are confusing weight and mass.
No, I am not confusing anything with anything else. Your total mass is the sum of the mass of your parts.
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