Can consciousness be explained by “emergence”?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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Re: Can consciousness be explained by “emergence”?

Post by bahman »

popeye1945 wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:46 pm Hi Bahman,

I believe our very existence establishes the fact that matter can and has created conscious life.
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that. We have another model, dualism for example, in which there are two substances, mind and qualia, mind has the ability to experience qualia, decide and cause qualia.
popeye1945 wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:46 pm The fact that a function or a system that arises does not display the qualities of the parts, just infers that what does arise, is through the means of processes contributed by all its parts, and indeed possibly a chain of developing interrelated products of the original parts, as all things seem to be in their natures process. I simply do not believe that there exists a property, a system, read object which is not the result of a process. So, what would this mean in a discussion of weak and strong emergence, it is true that conditions exist, but this is prior to the manifestation of matter/object or system, a condition may be simply a stage of development, of that which is interrelated and in an on going process.
If there was such a thing as a conscious field which is the result of the matter process then we could measure its existence in other forms of matter. But there is none. There are only four types of forces and their related fields.
popeye1945
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Re: Can consciousness be explained by “emergence”?

Post by popeye1945 »

[quote=bahman
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that. We have another model, dualism for example, in which there are two substances, mind and qualia, mind has the ability to experience qualia, decide and cause qualia.
popeye1945 wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:46 pm The fact that a function or a system that arises does not display the qualities of the parts, just infers that what does arise, is through the means of processes contributed by all its parts, and indeed possibly a chain of developing interrelated products of the original parts, as all things seem to be in their natures process. I simply do not believe that there exists a property, a system, read object which is not the result of a process. So, what would this mean in a discussion of weak and strong emergence, it is true that conditions exist, but this is prior to the manifestation of matter/object or system, a condition may be simply a stage of development, of that which is interrelated and in an on going process.
If there was such a thing as a conscious field which is the result of the matter process then we could measure its existence in other forms of matter. But there is none. There are only four types of forces and their related fields.
[/quote]

Bahman,

Duality is that which is unreal, subject and object stand or fall together, take away one and the others ceases to be, because they are one. There is such a thing as an energy field around the body, what is your understanding of what we should be looking for? Consciousness is not the soul property of the mind, as a multicellular organism consciousness is the property of the legion of the body. As far as measuring the existence of an energy field within an object I think the equation E= M C2 covers this. It is just recently/relatively speaking, that humanity has discovered how to release it.
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