Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

RogerSH
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
Contact:

Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RogerSH »

Let us focus our attention on those capabilities of consciousness associated with what we call… the “focus of attention”! This is an aspect of consciousness that is often taken for granted. To take an example, if I try to think of some words to express a particular idea, a candidate word or expression usually comes to mind, although I have no idea how. The mere fact of focusing conscious attention on an idea sets in motion unconscious processes that result in appropriate words coming to mind. This is a quite remarkable capability, and deserves some examination.

In some respects the process resembles a Google search, with Google performing the role of the unconscious mind, and the user, the role of the conscious mind. However, there is a fundamental difference. In a computer search, some kind of representation of what is sought has to be put into the search box – usually some words or an image. When I am looking for a word, what goes into the metaphorical search box can be an abstract idea, free of any representation. Perhaps the most plausible theory from a neuroscience point of view is that a concept is a sort of node in the “connectome” – the mesh of billions of point-to-point neural connections – whose meaning is defined by the other nodes it is connected to. A search is then defined by activating one or more nodes in a particular way. Also note that what is returned from the search can be a procedure rather than data – a mechanical procedure such as long multiplication, or logical reasoning, or a grammatical rule, or the way one has organized a store cupboard….

This even applies to creative activity – whether artistic creation, a freshly-coined metaphor or analogy, a mathematical proof, a new line of reasoning to help arrive at a choice of action, or whatever. This is often described as a mysterious process, but the most plausible outline account seems to be that patterns abstracted from one’s lifetime of experiences somehow combine together to generate novel patterns, and these are evaluated in the conscious “workspace” as candidate solutions to the question in hand, to see how well they fit. However, this is not the whole story. We also have to ask what sets in motion this process of pattern-assembly – what “activates” these long-stored patterns so that they can connect up with other patterns. The answer, again, seems to be: conscious attention focused on the question in hand initiates a search, whose newly assembled results may emerge promptly, or after some delay, or in extreme cases after repeated episodes of attention to the question over an extended period.

Initiating a search is only one of the capabilities of conscious attention. We can consciously “set a trigger”, so that we can intend to remember that we were going to buy something the next time we walk past a particular shop. We can consciously “concentrate”, so that a particular focus is repeatedly returned to after distraction – such as holding a number in mind while adding another number to it, or looking out for a particular name while scanning a list. We can consciously make a choice at whim, such as when asked to “think of a number”. The number thought of necessarily emerges from the unconscious, but only because we have consciously wanted that unconscious process to take place.
Consciousness can enter into a sort of dialogue with memory. If I want to remember a particular melody from a symphony, I can often only do so by focusing attention on the memory of the preceding melody and playing it through consciously in my mind. Remembering a name is often easier after remembering and focusing attention on an associated fact. Associative pathways are stored all the time, but conscious focus of attention seems to be necessary to activate them.

It seems to me that when we have noticed all this, we have noticed some of the key features of what we mean by consciousness, and yet the discussions of consciousness that I have found do not take it properly into account. Where the focus of attention is referred to at all, it is usually referred to in its role as a sort of passive receptacle, a workspace for integrating materials provided by unconscious processes; yet it is also (as illustrated in the examples above) a key initiator and orchestrator of those unconscious processes.

To summarize: the process that we experience as a focusing of conscious attention is the way we exercise (partial) control over many different kinds of unconscious processes. This is achieved by setting questions for the unconscious to answer – or more generally, demands for the unconscious to meet – from the material available.

Does anyone know of any writers who have described things in a similar way?

(It is also necessary to examine the separate case where attention is “seized” by sensory inputs rather than arising from preceding thoughts.)
RogerSH
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RogerSH »

The focus of our attention is often suddenly changed as the result of a sensory input – hearing a familiar name in a conversation we weren’t listening to, maybe, or somebody waving at us, or a stab of pain from a sore toe… David Eagleman (in “Livewired”) explains that this occurs when the input is in some way unexpected. “What is the neural technology that allows you to zoom in on those data points that don’t match your expectations, while ignoring everything that is already accounted for? We call this attention. You pay attention to the unexpected bang, the unforeseen brush on your skin, the surprising movement in your periphery”. But this begs the question: why is conscious attention needed in such a case? Why can’t our unconscious model just be updated unconsciously in the light of the new data? Eagleman’s reply is that “Attending allows you to put your high-resolution sensors on the problem and figure out how to incorporate it into your model”. The second part of this answer seems to be the key: the seizing of attention makes sense when we consider the role of attention in asking abstract questions for the unconscious mind to answer, because only in that way can the changes needed by the unexpected data be identified. The question that we focus on when some unexpected sensory input occurs is “So what? Why was that unexpected?”
Impenitent
Posts: 4305
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by Impenitent »

check out Edmund Husserl...

bracketing

-Imp
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RCSaunders »

RogerSH wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:02 am Let us focus our attention on those capabilities of consciousness associated with what we call… the “focus of attention”! This is an aspect of consciousness that is often taken for granted. To take an example, if I try to think of some words to express a particular idea, a candidate word or expression usually comes to mind, although I have no idea how. The mere fact of focusing conscious attention on an idea sets in motion unconscious processes that result in appropriate words coming to mind. This is a quite remarkable capability, and deserves some examination.

In some respects the process resembles a Google search, with Google performing the role of the unconscious mind, and the user, the role of the conscious mind. However, there is a fundamental difference. In a computer search, some kind of representation of what is sought has to be put into the search box – usually some words or an image. When I am looking for a word, what goes into the metaphorical search box can be an abstract idea, free of any representation. Perhaps the most plausible theory from a neuroscience point of view is that a concept is a sort of node in the “connectome” – the mesh of billions of point-to-point neural connections – whose meaning is defined by the other nodes it is connected to. A search is then defined by activating one or more nodes in a particular way. Also note that what is returned from the search can be a procedure rather than data – a mechanical procedure such as long multiplication, or logical reasoning, or a grammatical rule, or the way one has organized a store cupboard….

This even applies to creative activity – whether artistic creation, a freshly-coined metaphor or analogy, a mathematical proof, a new line of reasoning to help arrive at a choice of action, or whatever. This is often described as a mysterious process, but the most plausible outline account seems to be that patterns abstracted from one’s lifetime of experiences somehow combine together to generate novel patterns, and these are evaluated in the conscious “workspace” as candidate solutions to the question in hand, to see how well they fit. However, this is not the whole story. We also have to ask what sets in motion this process of pattern-assembly – what “activates” these long-stored patterns so that they can connect up with other patterns. The answer, again, seems to be: conscious attention focused on the question in hand initiates a search, whose newly assembled results may emerge promptly, or after some delay, or in extreme cases after repeated episodes of attention to the question over an extended period.

Initiating a search is only one of the capabilities of conscious attention. We can consciously “set a trigger”, so that we can intend to remember that we were going to buy something the next time we walk past a particular shop. We can consciously “concentrate”, so that a particular focus is repeatedly returned to after distraction – such as holding a number in mind while adding another number to it, or looking out for a particular name while scanning a list. We can consciously make a choice at whim, such as when asked to “think of a number”. The number thought of necessarily emerges from the unconscious, but only because we have consciously wanted that unconscious process to take place.
Consciousness can enter into a sort of dialogue with memory. If I want to remember a particular melody from a symphony, I can often only do so by focusing attention on the memory of the preceding melody and playing it through consciously in my mind. Remembering a name is often easier after remembering and focusing attention on an associated fact. Associative pathways are stored all the time, but conscious focus of attention seems to be necessary to activate them.

It seems to me that when we have noticed all this, we have noticed some of the key features of what we mean by consciousness, and yet the discussions of consciousness that I have found do not take it properly into account. Where the focus of attention is referred to at all, it is usually referred to in its role as a sort of passive receptacle, a workspace for integrating materials provided by unconscious processes; yet it is also (as illustrated in the examples above) a key initiator and orchestrator of those unconscious processes.

To summarize: the process that we experience as a focusing of conscious attention is the way we exercise (partial) control over many different kinds of unconscious processes. This is achieved by setting questions for the unconscious to answer – or more generally, demands for the unconscious to meet – from the material available.

Does anyone know of any writers who have described things in a similar way?

(It is also necessary to examine the separate case where attention is “seized” by sensory inputs rather than arising from preceding thoughts.)
I don't know what you think you are talking about, but it's not consciousness.

The only consciousness you can know for certain is your own, of course, but it is assumed that others are conscious, if for no other reason than the fact they say they are, and why would the lie about it.

But we also assume all sentient creatures are conscious. I'm sure my cats consciously experience their life without even being able to perform any of the nonsense you describe. What you seem to be attempting to describe is rational or intellectual consciousness, or perhaps epistemological consciousness, but it is certainly not consciousness itself. I think you have to start there, don't you? Exactly what does it mean to be conscious?
RogerSH
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RogerSH »

I'm not even sure that consciousness is necessarily a single thing, but rather a number of capabilities that tend to co-exist because they are mutually supporting. In that case, attention is just one of those capabilities, which I am arguing plays a central role in human consciousness. I don't know how to decide what cat consciousness is like, but my guess would be that attention, and the coming to mind of things relevant to the current focus, plays a big part there too. Has your cat told you otherwise? :wink:

The difference is probably that cats, as far as we know, don't use symbolic representations of the things that come to their mind, but that doesn't some them asking themselves non-verbally "what is causing this pain?" and the answer "it's the same human that maltreated me yesterday" coming to mind.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by Walker »

RogerSH wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:02 am Does anyone know of any writers who have described things in a similar way?
This offers a Buddhist perspective on attention.

Understanding the Mind
by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso

Have you noticed that attention affects cognition of reality? Geshe Kelsang Gyatso discusses this in terms of appropriate and inappropriate attention. He uses jargon and specific meanings, so he’s difficult to quote without a lot of cross-referencing.
RogerSH
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RogerSH »

Walker wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:12 am
RogerSH wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:02 am Does anyone know of any writers who have described things in a similar way?
This offers a Buddhist perspective on attention.

Understanding the Mind
by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso

Have you noticed that attention affects cognition of reality? Geshe Kelsang Gyatso discusses this in terms of appropriate and inappropriate attention. He uses jargon and specific meanings, so he’s difficult to quote without a lot of cross-referencing.
It seems to be "How to understand the Mind". Thanks, that sounds like quite a different approach but also wholly relevant. I'll get the e-book.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by Walker »

RogerSH wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:46 am
Walker wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:12 am
RogerSH wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:02 am Does anyone know of any writers who have described things in a similar way?
This offers a Buddhist perspective on attention.

Understanding the Mind
by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso

Have you noticed that attention affects cognition of reality? Geshe Kelsang Gyatso discusses this in terms of appropriate and inappropriate attention. He uses jargon and specific meanings, so he’s difficult to quote without a lot of cross-referencing.
It seems to be "How to understand the Mind". Thanks, that sounds like quite a different approach but also wholly relevant. I'll get the e-book.
I notice that there are various titles on Amazon, and one includes the word “How.”

I don’t know if that book has the same material, I assume it does.

This is the book on my shelf, which does not have the word "How" in the title.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 3,200_.jpg

Understanding the Mind
The Nature and Power of the Mind
by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso


This version, on my shelf, is also immune to digital alterations. :shock:

These days ... who knows, what with the Chinese sticking their big noses into the Karmapa lineage.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by Walker »

RogerSH wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:46 am Thanks, that sounds like quite a different approach but also wholly relevant. I'll get the e-book.
Good luck. It’s a bit of a mind-blower. The Buddhists are big on taxonomy.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RCSaunders »

RogerSH wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:44 am The difference is probably that cats, as far as we know, don't use symbolic representations of the things that come to their mind, but that doesn't some them asking themselves non-verbally "what is causing this pain?"
Since human beings cannot ask questions, "no-verbally," why would any other animal be able to. How would any creature think, "what is causing this pain," without language? It's absurd.
RogerSH
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RogerSH »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:53 pm
RogerSH wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:44 am The difference is probably that cats, as far as we know, don't use symbolic representations of the things that come to their mind, but that doesn't some them asking themselves non-verbally "what is causing this pain?"
Since human beings cannot ask questions, "no-verbally," why would any other animal be able to. How would any creature think, "what is causing this pain," without language? It's absurd.
There is often a time delay between knowing what meaning I wish to express and what words would serve to express it. That is evidence enough to me that (pace Vygotsky) thoughts exist independently of language, so I don't see why cats can't have non-linguistic meanings in their minds. It's surely obvious that when I wrote "what is causing this pain?" I was referring to the meaning, not the actual words.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RCSaunders »

RogerSH wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:32 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:53 pm
RogerSH wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:44 am The difference is probably that cats, as far as we know, don't use symbolic representations of the things that come to their mind, but that doesn't some them asking themselves non-verbally "what is causing this pain?"
Since human beings cannot ask questions, "no-verbally," why would any other animal be able to. How would any creature think, "what is causing this pain," without language? It's absurd.
There is often a time delay between knowing what meaning I wish to express and what words would serve to express it. That is evidence enough to me that (pace Vygotsky) thoughts exist independently of language, so I don't see why cats can't have non-linguistic meanings in their minds. It's surely obvious that when I wrote "what is causing this pain?" I was referring to the meaning, not the actual words.
The word, "meaning," for me pertains only to concepts. What a concept, "means," is whatever existent or existents the concept identifies, usually called its referents. The only means I have for being conscioous of exstents when they are not present to be directly perceived is by means of concepts. A cat can be conscious of the mouse it is seeing, the food it is smelling, and the things in its environment it is immediately perceiving, but it cannot be conscious of what it saw yesterday or consider what it will do tomorrow, because it has no way to be conscious of them.

I'm not sure what the word, "meaning," identifies for you. What has meaning (in the epistemological sense) other than concepts.
RogerSH
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:30 am
Contact:

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by RogerSH »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:20 pm
The word, "meaning," for me pertains only to concepts. What a concept, "means," is whatever existent or existents the concept identifies, usually called its referents. The only means I have for being conscioous of exstents when they are not present to be directly perceived is by means of concepts.

I'm not sure what the word, "meaning," identifies for you. What has meaning (in the epistemological sense) other than concepts.
I don't think meanings exist in isolation but only as part as part of a vast web that constitutes our understanding of the world, so a discrete meaning is constituted by the set of its relationship to other meanings (& where applicable to inputs/outputs) - its logical place in the web. I think of concepts as nodes in the web that we can attend to consciously.
A cat can be conscious of the mouse it is seeing, the food it is smelling, and the things in its environment it is immediately perceiving, but it cannot be conscious of what it saw yesterday or consider what it will do tomorrow, because it has no way to be conscious of them.
How do you know?
Annette Campbell
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:18 am

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by Annette Campbell »

Sentience, or knowledge of both internal and exterior existence, is the simplest definition of consciousness. Consciousness is "at once the most recognizable and [yet] the most inexplicable part of our life," despite millennia of analyses, definitions, explanations, and discussions by philosophers and scientists. The sense that consciousness exists is perhaps the only universally held belief on the subject. Different people have different ideas on what has to be investigated and defined as consciousness. It can refer to both the mind and a particular component of the mind. It used to be one's "inner life," or the realm of reflection, introspective thinking, private imagination, and free will. Any type of cognition, emotion, sensation, or perception is frequently included nowadays.
Here are 10 Ways to Improve your Memory and Ace the Exams! [ksa.mytutorsource.com/blog/10-ways-to-improve-your-memory-and-ace-the-exams/]
Whether it is constantly changing or not, it might be awareness, awareness of awareness, or self-awareness. There may be several consciousness types, levels, or orders, or there may just be one kind with a variety of characteristics. Other concerns include whether the entire cosmos, all creatures, or only humans have consciousness. It is debatable if the correct questions are being addressed given the wide range of studies, ideas, and suppositions. Simple wakefulness, one's feeling of selfhood or soul investigated by "seeing inside"; becoming a metaphorical "stream" of content, or being a mental state, mental event, or mental activity of the brain; possessing phanera or qualia & subjectivity; being the "inner theatre" or even the executive process control of the mind are examples of descriptions, definitions, or explanations.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Attention: a key to understanding consciousness?

Post by bahman »

Consciousness is the ability of the mind, the ability to experience.
Post Reply