AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Age wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:50 am
AlexW wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:10 pm
So... then why say it?
Now this here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what happens when has NOT YET become Truly OPEN.
I have REPEATEDLY been INFORMING you that I NEITHER believe NOR disbelieve ANY thing. Therefore, I OBVIOUSLY would NOT believe the thing in your question to be true. BUT, this ALSO OBVIOUSLY does NOT mean I disbelieve it is true EITHER, NOR believe that it is false. See, I NEITHER believe NOR disbelieve.
Now, WHY I said that is because of the evidence and proof for the FACT that that is true.
You are contradicting yourself
Contrary to what 'you' BELIEVE is true, I am NOT contradicting "myself"
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
- either you neither believe nor disbelieve anything, which would mean that there are no FACTs at all (as no so called FACT could be true) or you actually do believe something, which again would mean that there could be such a FACT, which again you believe to be true.
LOL You REALLY can NOT YET SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS. ONCE AGAIN, this is BECAUSE of your BELIEFS.
There is absolutely NOTHING, within the Universe, besides 'you', "alexw", which backs up and supports the idea that FACTS can ONLY exist when human beings are either BELIEVING or DISBELIEVING some 'thing' is true. This is JUST what 'you' BELIEVE is true. This, itself, is NOT a FACT.
You appear to be completely and utterly UNAWARE of what 'being Truly OPEN' ACTUALLY means and refers to.
FACTS are NOT depended upon what is BELIEVED nor DISBELIEVED. A 'FACT' is a 'thing', which is KNOWN, or has been PROVED, to be true.
SEE, FACTS can have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with BELIEFS. This is because of the OBVIOUS FACT that some of 'you', human beings, BELIEVE 'things', which are, and were, OBVIOUSLY NOT True, AT ALL.
So, your CLAIM here that; one MUST believe, or disbelieve, something, otherwise there could be NO facts is just OBVIOUSLY False, and thus NOT true AT ALL. Your CLAIM is also NOT a FACT just because you BELIEVE in your CLAIM.
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Age wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:50 am
My point still remains IRREFUTABLY True. As ALREADY PROVEN.
While BELIEVING some 'thing' is true, in those moments 'you' are NOT OPEN to ANY thing opposing nor contrary to that BELIEF.
I am perfectly fine with you believing that
But I do NOT BELIEVE 'that'.
This is just irrefutably True. Unless, OF COURSE, 'you' can prove otherwise.
Can you prove otherwise?
If yes, then will you?
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
- I am even perfectly fine with you believing that you are not believing this to be true
But I do NOT BELIEVE what you said here.
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
- and I am even perfectly fine with you believing you neither believe nor disbelieve that.
But I do NOT BELIEVE 'that'.
What can be CLEARLY SEEN HERE is that 'you', OBVIOUSLY, can NOT YET shake nor rid "yourself" of your BELIEF here.
IF, and WHEN, you get rid of that BELIEF, then you will SEE WHY what you are CLAIMING here is so OBVIOUSLY Wrong and False.
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Age wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:50 am
Words have FAR MORE POWER over 'you' than 'you' YET FULLY REALIZE. And, until 'you' DO FULLY REALIZE this FACT 'you' will continue saying things that are, OBVIOUSLY, COMPLETELY UNTRUE, and 'you' will KEEP BELIEVING that 'you' do KNOW what is true.
I am well aware of the power of words and concepts - but it seems you are not.
You are trying to award them a power they actually don't have - specifically: stating absolute truth.
What do the words 'absolute truth' ACTUALLY mean, to 'you'?
And, what power to do these words ACTUALLY have, to 'you', WHILE 'you' BELIEVE that I am trying to award these words a power that they, supposedly, actually do not have?
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Here is a brief analogy:
If some tool is meant to be used to perform a certain task - e.g. a hammer is used to hammer in nails - then using this tool for tasks that it wasn't designed for can lead to unexpected results.
If you, for example, attempted to change a lightbulb using this hammer, then you won't be able to achieve the task, all you might achieve is breaking the lightbulb...
When you CLAIM, " you will not be able to achieve "this task" ", what is 'this task', which you are referring to here?
If you mean, I will not be able to achieve changing the light bulb, then HOW do you know this?
ALSO, NONE of what you have just said here has absolutely ANY thing to do with BELIEFS, and how I do NOT have ANY, nor to do with the power of word, themselves.
What tools are created for, is a WHOLE COMPLETELY OTHER MATTER.
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Conceptual thought, and as such language, is such a tool, it is meant to form and express concepts, it is meant to interpret and describe what is directly experienced - but it will never be the actual truth of this very experience.
Is this A Truth?
Or, is this just what you BELIEVE is true, and could IN FACT be False and/or Wrong?
Your Honest answer would be much appreciated.
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Language is a tool meant for the dualistic realm, the world of things, it is not meant to - nor can it - be on the same level with the reality of direct experience.
And what are you using for PROOF for this CLAIM of yours, which you BELIEVE is the One and ONLY ULTIMATE Truth of things?
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
Now, if you still insist and attempt to change this light bulb with the hammer - meaning: insisting on stating an absolute truth which is reserved for reality only - then you can only do so by "breaking reality" into little pieces... but of course you are not actually breaking it, you only seem to be breaking it into what we call "separate things".
Your "brief analogy" is NOT working AT ALL.
In fact your "brief analogy" is so OFF TRACK you are MISSING THE MARK.
AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:25 am
These separate objects and things are the result of the power of language - its the concepts that give birth to separation (and with it the world of things, you, me and others) - its language that shatters the (imaginary) light bulb.
What???
Reality, and Truth, can NOT be "shattered", NOR "separated", in ACTUALITY.
Only 'you', human beings, create an APPEARANCE of 'separation'. This is BECAUSE of the language, which 'you' use, and BECAUSE of the way the human brain works. SEE, 'you', human beings, in the past, HAD TO "separate" thee One into separate labelled 'things', in order to make sense of thee One and ONLY ACTUAL Truth and Reality, HERE.
There are NO ACTUAL separated objects and things. There are, however, OBVIOUSLY thee One Thing, which is made up of MANY different word/labels, and it is through the power of these DIFFERENT looking words, and the meanings 'you' behind them that are GIVEN by 'you', human beings, which is what makes 'you', human beings, ASSUME and/or BELIEVE that there are ACTUAL separate objects and things.