Is Consciousness Necessary?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:38 pm But it seems to me you have a problem: You are confused about consciousness. I am not. I don't even know if I am conscious.

Why then would I want to think like you if all you are offering is problems that I don't have?
I know that I am conscious. You don't seem to know if you're conscious or not? The latter sounds more like "confusion" to me.
Last edited by Gary Childress on Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Skepdick
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:39 pm Too cute but just check out the course I listed above. A philosophic perspective is better than that of a clever fool.
How?

All that Philosophy gave you was a problem without a solution in telling you that you are conscious without explaining what that even means.

I don't have your problem.

Seems I am better off than you are.
Skepdick
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:43 pm I know that I am conscious. You don't seem to know if your conscious or not? The latter sounds more like "confusion" to me.
I am as much confused about my consciousness as you are confused about your wureflumpengesness.

Maybe you should take a course on the philosophy of bullshit. So that you can learn what wureflumpengesness means, and why you have a problem.
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:43 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:39 pm Too cute but just check out the course I listed above. A philosophic perspective is better than that of a clever fool.
How?

All that Philosophy gave you was a problem without a solution in telling you that you are conscious without explaining what that even means.

I don't have your problem.

Seems I am better off than you are.
According to you, you don't even know if you are conscious or not. How is that better off?
Skepdick
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:45 pm According to you, you don't even know if you are conscious or not. How is that better off?
In exactly the same way you don't know if you are wureflumpenges or not.

I could tell you that you are wureflumpengesness. It's a problem that you don't know though.
Last edited by Skepdick on Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:47 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:45 pm According to you, you don't even know if you are conscious or not. How is that better off?
In exactly the same way you are better off not knowing if you are wureflumpenges.

I could tell you that you are wureflumpengesness. It's a problem that you don't know though.
What does wureflumpengesness mean?
Skepdick
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:48 pm What does wureflumpengesness mean?
What does consciousness mean?
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:48 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:48 pm What does wureflumpengesness mean?
What does consciousness mean?
Consciousness refers to mental experience. What does wurefulmpengesness refer to?
Skepdick
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:57 pm Consciousness refers to mental experience.
What does "mental experience" refer to?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:57 pm What does wurefulmpengesness refer to?
I'm sorry about that. I know what I mean by wurefulmpengesness. Putting it into words or trying to "define" it in a simple sentence or even a paragraph is extremely difficult, though. Wurefulmpengesness is purely subjective. It can only be vertmuxed. I'm sure you have your own idea about what wurefulmpengesness is. If so, I'd like to hear it.

The point I am making is you've ascribed some denotation/meaning to the English word "consciousness". And then you've stuck the label to yourself thinking that it describes some aspect of you.
commonsense
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by commonsense »

Can we discuss the necessity of consciousness without an agreement on what consciousness is?

Can consciousness be reduced to a mere state where mind and brain are fully functional?

Do we need to identify those functions in order to evaluate the necessity of consciousness?
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:04 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:57 pm Consciousness refers to mental experience.
What does "mental experience" refer to?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:57 pm What does wurefulmpengesness refer to?
I'm sorry about that. I know what I mean by wurefulmpengesness. Putting it into words or trying to "define" it in a simple sentence or even a paragraph is extremely difficult, though. Wurefulmpengesness is purely subjective. It can only be vertmuxed. I'm sure you have your own idea about what wurefulmpengesness is. If so, I'd like to hear it.

The point I am making is you've ascribed some denotation/meaning to the English word "consciousness". And then you've stuck the label to yourself thinking that it describes some aspect of you.
If I have a broken arm, I ascribe a label of "injured" to myself. We generally know what we are talking about with most basic concepts. Making up completely fictitious names and assigning them to nothing is just that.
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Or if you would like to refer to consciousness as wurefulmpengesness, then fine. You surely possess wurefulmpengesness. Perhaps it's something similar to consciousness.
Skepdick
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:12 pm Or if you would like to refer to consciousness as wurefulmpengesness, then fine. You surely possess wurefulmpengesness. Perhaps it's something similar to consciousness.
I don't know if wurefulmpengesness refers to consicousness. I don't know what consciousness refers to.
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

commonsense wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:11 pm Can we discuss the necessity of consciousness without an agreement on what consciousness is?

Can consciousness be reduced to a mere state where mind and brain are fully functional?

Do we need to identify those functions in order to evaluate the necessity of consciousness?
I think we can discuss consciousness in the broadest sense as something which human beings generally possess in some way and possibly other creatures possess in perhaps different ways. If someone wants to get picky and say that only experience of the color red is "conscious experience" and that of blue is not, then it gets problematic. But consciousness poses an interesting problem for physicalists. Unless they just want to, by default, call anything and everything "physical." But I suppose that's fair game too. I'd rather draw a distinction between that which can be measured and/or observed from that which cannot. I call the former "physical" and the latter "non-physical." But I guess it's like one-half dozen the other.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gary Childress
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Re: Is Consciousness Necessary?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:19 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:12 pm Or if you would like to refer to consciousness as wurefulmpengesness, then fine. You surely possess wurefulmpengesness. Perhaps it's something similar to consciousness.
I don't know if wurefulmpengesness refers to consicousness. I don't know what consciousness refers to.
As I said, try the lecture I posted the link to or take a class in philosophy of mind and see if that helps. I think you will have some "aha" experiences when they start to attempt to define and talk about "consciousness." Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. It's a difficult concept to wrestle with and define, sort of like the word "justice" is a difficult concept to define. But we use the word in a meaningful way all the time. Perhaps the fact that we all use the word regularly but don't all agree as to what the definition is, is what makes it so fascinating.
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