Computers Are Incapable Of Creatively Writing Music

[SteveKlinko]

As I said, the Human Composer will hear the Music in the Conscious Mind as a Conscious Experience. Beethoven could certainly do that, even with failing hearing.

The Beethoven thing was a throwaway line; he probably wasn't completely deaf. The point about Bach is more interesting. According to some theories, he at least experimented with writing music mathematically, rather than aesthetically. Many artists have play around with time signatures and there is a whole genre called Math Rock. I don't think the source of a string of notes really matters, it is the audience who judges it.

But a Human Composer can prejudge it before releasing it to an audience, but a Computer cannot.

[commonsense]

Computers don't Compose anything. Computers Calculate Music based on Algorithms and stored Data.

Composition is the process of specifying exactly what sounds will occur, or specifying at least the parameters of the sounds to occur, with what properties (a la dynamics, phrasing, etc.) in a sequential and simultaneous temporal musical context. Computers can do that.

Of course, but we are exploring the Conscious Experience of Music here. A Computer will have no Clue about how it is Experienced by a Conscious Mind, but a Human Composer will.

It is obvious that a computer can generate, produce, compose and create music.

It is just as obvious that a computer, having no Conscious Mind, cannot enjoy, appreciate, or experience music.

The fact that an algorithm can create music is proof that it is not necessary to experience music in order to create it.

[Terrapin Station]

Of course, but we are exploring the Conscious Experience of Music here.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Again, common definitions of "creative" include such as "marked by the ability or power to create," "having the quality of something created rather than imitated," "originative, productive," etc. None of those phrases necessarily imply experience/consciousness.

[Terrapin Station]

But a Human Composer can prejudge it before releasing it to an audience, but a Computer cannot.

Sure, but that's not necessary to create a musical composition.

[Terrapin Station]

Composition is the process of specifying exactly what sounds will occur, or specifying at least the parameters of the sounds to occur, with what properties (a la dynamics, phrasing, etc.) in a sequential and simultaneous temporal musical context. Computers can do that.

Of course, but we are exploring the Conscious Experience of Music here. A Computer will have no Clue about how it is Experienced by a Conscious Mind, but a Human Composer will.

It is obvious that a computer can generate, produce, compose and create music.

It is just as obvious that a computer, having no Conscious Mind, cannot enjoy, appreciate, or experience music.

The fact that an algorithm can create music is proof that it is not necessary to experience music in order to create it.

Exactly.

[SteveKlinko]

Composition is the process of specifying exactly what sounds will occur, or specifying at least the parameters of the sounds to occur, with what properties (a la dynamics, phrasing, etc.) in a sequential and simultaneous temporal musical context. Computers can do that.

Of course, but we are exploring the Conscious Experience of Music here. A Computer will have no Clue about how it is Experienced by a Conscious Mind, but a Human Composer will.

It is obvious that a computer can generate, produce, compose and create music.

It is just as obvious that a computer, having no Conscious Mind, cannot enjoy, appreciate, or experience music.

The fact that an algorithm can create music is proof that it is not necessary to experience music in order to create it.

I never said a Computer cannot generate something that can be judged as Music, but I did say a Computer cannot Creatively Write Music. Do you think that Human Music Composers will be put out of business by Computer generated Music? If not, then the reason why we would need Human Composers is because Computers are not actually Creatively making Music.

[SteveKlinko]

But a Human Composer can prejudge it before releasing it to an audience, but a Computer cannot.

Sure, but that's not necessary to create a musical composition.

But Music is Created for the Enjoyment of a Conscious Mind. A Computer cannot know that any Conscious Mind will like the Music it generates if it is not able to Experience it as a Conscious Mind would? It is Musically Blind, operating on Algorithms.

[Terrapin Station]

But Music is Created for the Enjoyment of a Conscious Mind.

Are you saying this as a purpose or something? I don't believe that there's anything that has just one purpose. It depends on how an individual is thinking about it, assuming that they're even thinking about whatever it is in terms of a purpose.

A Computer cannot know that any Conscious Mind will like the Music it generates if it is not able to Experience it as a Conscious Mind would? It is Musically Blind, operating on Algorithms.

Sure. I just don't see what this has to do with the question of whether computers can create musical compositions that people enjoy. The computer doesn't have to be consciously trying to do this in order to do it.

[commonsense]

So now it’s creatively writing music is different than creating music?

I think I need to hear again your definition of create and also to hear your definition of music.

By your definitions I may have to agree with you 100%.

[Dimebag]

Music is essentially tied to emotion. Computers may be able to copy or randomly generate musical compositions which share similar aspects of different kinds of music, but, computers can neither feel the emotions which music is intended to evoke, nor can they use emotions to inform a musical composition.

Furthermore, music is about life, and, the human condition, two more things which computers cannot (currently) understand.

A lot of music is not "about" emotion in any conventional sense, and is not about "life and the human condition." Re emotions in conventional senses, I'm talking about things like happiness, sadness, etc., as opposed to emotions (which generally don't have conventional terms) that are purely/uniquely aesthetic in nature.

Put simply, music makes us FEEL a certain way. Would you not agree with that?

[Terrapin Station]

Music is essentially tied to emotion. Computers may be able to copy or randomly generate musical compositions which share similar aspects of different kinds of music, but, computers can neither feel the emotions which music is intended to evoke, nor can they use emotions to inform a musical composition.

Furthermore, music is about life, and, the human condition, two more things which computers cannot (currently) understand.

A lot of music is not "about" emotion in any conventional sense, and is not about "life and the human condition." Re emotions in conventional senses, I'm talking about things like happiness, sadness, etc., as opposed to emotions (which generally don't have conventional terms) that are purely/uniquely aesthetic in nature.

Put simply, music makes us FEEL a certain way. Would you not agree with that?

It can, sure. The music that connects with me emotionally/in terms of feelings mostly connects to me purely in terms of aesthetic feelings.

[Dimebag]

A lot of music is not "about" emotion in any conventional sense, and is not about "life and the human condition." Re emotions in conventional senses, I'm talking about things like happiness, sadness, etc., as opposed to emotions (which generally don't have conventional terms) that are purely/uniquely aesthetic in nature.

Put simply, music makes us FEEL a certain way. Would you not agree with that?

It can, sure. The music that connects with me emotionally/in terms of feelings mostly connects to me purely in terms of aesthetic feelings.

Okay good. So if we agree that music makes us feel something, would you not also agree that when music makes us feel something, it is an intentional aspect of the musical creation, such that, the creator was intending to evoke particular feelings? And that if that is the case, then in order to create music which effectively conveys emotions, which are a human element of being, that one must also possess those feelings?

[Terrapin Station]

Okay good. So if we agree that music makes us feel something, would you not also agree that when music makes us feel something, it is an intentional aspect of the musical creation, such that, the creator was intending to evoke particular feelings?

No. Anyone who creates music that winds up being consumed by large numbers of people knows that no matter what they do, it's going to be interpreted in every way imaginable--plus some. So shooting for a particular predicted reaction is pointless.

And that if that is the case, then in order to create music which effectively conveys emotions,

The aesthetic "emotions" in question are a subjective reaction to formal structures. You're simply creating "reaction potentials" in manipulating structures.

which are a human element of being, that one must also possess those feelings?

No. What you're definitely not doing is "sending" feelings you have to other people with musical structures as the medium.

[Skepdick]

Okay good. So if we agree that music makes us feel something, would you not also agree that when music makes us feel something, it is an intentional aspect of the musical creation, such that, the creator was intending to evoke particular feelings?

What if the artists wasn't intending to evoke any particular feelings? What if they are just expressing their state of mind in the form of music?

And that if that is the case, then in order to create music which effectively conveys emotions, which are a human element of being, that one must also possess those feelings?

Sure. In order to generate music a computer must possess those states of minds to express it.

[commonsense]

The mechanics in the pit crew don’t have to have the abilities of a race-car driver in order to fix one.

The doctor doesn’t have to feel the discomfort of appendicitis in order to operate on a patient.

Not artistic enough for you? Then try these:

A choreographer doesn’t have to jump and spin in order to creatively direct a dance troop.

A musician doesn’t have to hear in order to creatively strike the keys on a piano.

A producer doesn’t have to be able to direct in order to creatively produce a film.

A director doesn’t have to be able to act in order to creatively direct.

An author doesn’t have to be sighted in order to creatively write a novel.

A chef doesn’t have to be able to taste or smell in order to creatively add spice to a recipe.