What Forms of Schadenfreude, if Any, Should be Pardonable?

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FrankGSterleJr
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What Forms of Schadenfreude, if Any, Should be Pardonable?

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

[Edited text is bolded]

As a boy, general or normal human nature—including that aspect involving one person’s pleasure derived from another’s misfortune—bewildered and scared me; as a teenager, it frustrated and tormented me. As an adult, I’m concerned and even angered by it. Enough so to enthusiastically watch, on multiple occasions, The Experimenter (about sociologist Stanley Milgram and his controversial Obedience Experiments), and to read the book The Joy of Pain: Schadenfreude and the Dark Side of Human Nature (Richard H. Smith) and typeset onto my computer the most interesting parts.

A case about which I read in a newspaper column that will undoubtedly be deemed by most readers as one understandably deserving, relatively speaking, of their shameful pleasure is that of a man convicted of murdering an 18-year-old woman and her infant who himself was then severely beaten while in prison and felt his assailant got off easy by the justice system.

It was last June, however, that a very disturbing form of schadenfreude was front and centre in the news: It was revealed that accusations were under investigation by our provincial government that some British Columbia emergency room doctors and nurses were playing games with their peers in which they’d guess heavily intoxicated patients’ “blood alcohol level without going over” (likely an allusion to the famous Price Is Right TV game show rule involving product prices).

Particularly troubling was the accusation that most of those ER ‘games’ involved the racist stereotyping of Indigenous walk-in patients.

The apparent scandal immediately brought to mind a book passage explaining how such discriminatory conduct towards patients, however inappropriate, unjust and seemingly cruel, can be the health professionals’ means of psychologically coping with the great trauma they’re frequently surrounded by and treat.

Essentially, by subtly blaming the patients for their own suffering—e.g. making fun out of frequent ER patients by playing games guessing their blood alcohol levels—somehow it translates into their suffering somehow being deserved.

The Joy of Pain also cited the book The Belief in a Just World: A Fundamental Delusion (Melvin J. Lerner), in which the author describes his own experiences while working with doctors and nurses caring for psychiatric patients.

Smith wrote: “… [Lerner] saw many instances of these professionals joking about their patients behind their backs, sometimes to their faces. These reactions jarred him because, generally, these patients were unlucky souls and had little control over their psychological problems. But he did not view his colleagues as callous. Rather, he concluded that their reactions were coping responses to the unpleasant reality they confronted in these patients. If these patients largely seemed to ‘deserve’ their troubles, one could feel comfortable joking about them … ”

Nonetheless, considering their profession, immense training/education and the poorest of souls they treat, these to me are among the least excusable, albeit understandable, forms of shameful pleasure.
Last edited by FrankGSterleJr on Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What Forms of Schadenfreude, if Any, Should be Pardonable?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Insofar as we're simply talking about a person's mental dispositions, I'd say that no degree of schadenfreude would not be pardonable in my view. People don't need excuses, don't need to apologize, etc. for anything they find pleasurable. I'm not at all in favor of anyone serving as thought police, emotion police, disposition police, etc.
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Re: What Forms of Schadenfreude, if Any, Should be Pardonable?

Post by Age »

FrankGSterleJr wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:42 pm As a boy, general or normal human nature—including that aspect involving one person’s pleasure derived from another’s misfortune—bewildered and scared me; as a teenager, it frustrated and tormented me. As an adult, I’m concerned and even angered by it. Enough so to enthusiastically watch, on multiple occasions, The Experimenter (about sociologist Stanley Milgram and his controversial Obedience Experiments), and to read the book The Joy of Pain: Schadenfreude and the Dark Side of Human Nature (Richard H. Smith) and typeset onto my computer the most interesting parts.

A case about which I read in a newspaper column that will undoubtedly be deemed by most readers as one understandably deserving, relatively speaking, of their shameful pleasure is that of a man convicted of murdering an 18-year-old woman and her infant who himself was then severely beaten while in prison and felt his assailant got off easy by the justice system.

It was last June, however, that a very disturbing form of schadenfreude was front and centre in the news: It was revealed that accusations were under investigation by our provincial government that some British Columbian ER doctors and nurses were playing games in which they’d guess heavily intoxicated patients’ “blood alcohol level without going over” (likely an allusion to the famous Price Is Right TV game show rule involving product prices).

Particularly troubling was the accusation that most of those ER ‘games’ involved the racist stereotyping of Indigenous walk-in patients.

The apparent scandal immediately brought to mind a book passage explaining how such discriminatory conduct towards patients, however inappropriate, unjust and seemingly cruel, can be the health professionals’ means of psychologically coping with the great trauma they’re frequently surrounded by and treat.

Essentially, by subtly blaming the patients for their own suffering—e.g. making fun out of frequent ER patients by playing games guessing their blood alcohol levels—somehow it translates into their suffering somehow being deserved.
How exactly do you relate just "guessing what someone's blood alcohol content is going to be" is "subtly blaming the patients for their own suffering"?

1. The two do NOT necessarily go "hand in hand", as some would say.

2. If someone is now suffering from their own self-induced drunkenness, then there is NO one else to blame but 'them', subtly or not.

In profession where something is just common practice, like, for example; testing for blood alcohol content, then the ones doing that profession would probably just end up preguessing what the outcome is going to be. But probably more so out of just boredom than anything else.

Also, how does just guessing someone's blood alcohol level, supposedly, automatically translate into "making fun out of a person"?
FrankGSterleJr wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:42 pm The Joy of Pain also cited the book The Belief in a Just World: A Fundamental Delusion (Melvin J. Lerner), in which the author describes his own experiences while working with doctors and nurses caring for psychiatric patients.

Smith wrote: “… [Lerner] saw many instances of these professionals joking about their patients behind their backs, sometimes to their faces. These reactions jarred him because, generally, these patients were unlucky souls and had little control over their psychological problems. But he did not view his colleagues as callous. Rather, he concluded that their reactions were coping responses to the unpleasant reality they confronted in these patients. If these patients largely seemed to ‘deserve’ their troubles, one could feel comfortable joking about them … ”
As this appears, well to me anyway, of just one of the many forms of "justifications" adult human beings 'try to' use for their WRONG behaving.
FrankGSterleJr wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:42 pm Nonetheless, considering their profession, immense training/education and the poorest of souls they treat, these to me are among the least excusable, albeit understandable, forms of shameful pleasure.
How do you find the putting down and ridiculing of "others", especially of those who are MEANT TO BE under the 'care of' someone, "understandable".

I agree that they are the least excusable, but adult human beings have learned MANY WAYS to deceive and fool "themselves".
FrankGSterleJr
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Re: What Forms of Schadenfreude, if Any, Should be Pardonable?

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

There are different forms of schadenfreude, some more self-servingly shameful than others.

As for the health professionals’ shameful pleasure being reasonable, I’d ask them to imagine that the ER patient about whom they’re joking is someone they greatly care about and love.

It's hard to picture them playing their little version of The Price Is Right with their alcohol-overdosing sister, son or father.
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