How do we recall?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Skepdick
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:44 pm What do you take to be evidence that "information" is only stored in neurons?
1. He didn't use the word "only". You put it there.

2. Evidence and information mean exactly the same thing in Information theory/Statistical inference.
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:44 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:28 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:20 pm

If the area is "the brain" that would work.
Information is stored in a collection of neurons to be more precise. Each neuron has a location. Therefore, we are dealing with a volume (rather than area to be more precise).
What do you take to be evidence that "information" is only stored in neurons?
Memory lose due to injury.
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:20 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:44 pm What do you take to be evidence that "information" is only stored in neurons?
1. He didn't use the word "only". You put it there.

2. Evidence and information mean exactly the same thing in Information theory/Statistical inference.
Very true. The connection between neurons is also about how some sort of information are correlated and the correlation is a sort of information too.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:44 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:28 pm
Information is stored in a collection of neurons to be more precise. Each neuron has a location. Therefore, we are dealing with a volume (rather than area to be more precise).
What do you take to be evidence that "information" is only stored in neurons?
Memory lose due to injury.
Where only neurons were injured? That would be a weird injury.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:28 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:20 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:44 pm What do you take to be evidence that "information" is only stored in neurons?
1. He didn't use the word "only". You put it there.

2. Evidence and information mean exactly the same thing in Information theory/Statistical inference.
Very true. The connection between neurons is also about how some sort of information are correlated and the correlation is a sort of information too.
If you weren't saying only neurons, then why did you specify that the location is "neurons to be more precise"? What aside from neurons would you say is the location?
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:29 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:44 pm
What do you take to be evidence that "information" is only stored in neurons?
Memory lose due to injury.
Where only neurons were injured? That would be a weird injury.
Injury can kill neurons or disrupt the connection between them, in both there would be memory lose.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:36 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:29 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm
Memory lose due to injury.
Where only neurons were injured? That would be a weird injury.
Injury can kill neurons or disrupt the connection between them, in both there would be memory lose.
No injury only affects neurons.
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:30 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:28 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:20 pm
1. He didn't use the word "only". You put it there.

2. Evidence and information mean exactly the same thing in Information theory/Statistical inference.
Very true. The connection between neurons is also about how some sort of information are correlated and the correlation is a sort of information too.
If you weren't saying only neurons, then why did you specify that the location is "neurons to be more precise"? What aside from neurons would you say is the location?
To be more precise the information is stored electrochemically in a subset of neurons and their connection. Different sort of information might be related and this is stored again in neurons and the connection between the different subset of neurons each subset carries specific information. A small volume of the brain contains a lot of information some exhaustively exist in that volume and some partially. The information is stored in neurons that are in proximity to each other because it is economical. Proximity however does not essentially mean the closest spatially.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:56 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:30 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:28 pm
Very true. The connection between neurons is also about how some sort of information are correlated and the correlation is a sort of information too.
If you weren't saying only neurons, then why did you specify that the location is "neurons to be more precise"? What aside from neurons would you say is the location?
To be more precise the information is stored electrochemically in a subset of neurons and their connection. Different sort of information might be related and this is stored again in neurons and the connection between the different subset of neurons each subset carries specific information. A small volume of the brain contains a lot of information some exhaustively exist in that volume and some partially. The information is stored in neurons that are in proximity to each other because it is economical. Proximity however does not essentially mean the closest spatially.
Are there brain parts that don't "store 'information'" in your view?
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:44 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:36 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:29 pm

Where only neurons were injured? That would be a weird injury.
Injury can kill neurons or disrupt the connection between them, in both there would be memory lose.
No injury only affects neurons.
It can affect connections too.
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:02 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:56 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:30 pm

If you weren't saying only neurons, then why did you specify that the location is "neurons to be more precise"? What aside from neurons would you say is the location?
To be more precise the information is stored electrochemically in a subset of neurons and their connection. Different sort of information might be related and this is stored again in neurons and the connection between the different subset of neurons each subset carries specific information. A small volume of the brain contains a lot of information some exhaustively exist in that volume and some partially. The information is stored in neurons that are in proximity to each other because it is economical. Proximity however does not essentially mean the closest spatially.
Are there brain parts that don't "store 'information'" in your view?
I think so. I am a dualist so I think that the brain holds information mainly. That is the mind, most importantly the subconscious mind which is in charge of reading and writing information in the brain. The conscious mind has high-level duties. The conscious mind and subconscious mind are connected through the brain too. Therefore, there are parts of the brain that their sole responsibility is to allow different minds to interact.
commonsense
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by commonsense »

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Last edited by commonsense on Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:19 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:02 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:56 pm
To be more precise the information is stored electrochemically in a subset of neurons and their connection. Different sort of information might be related and this is stored again in neurons and the connection between the different subset of neurons each subset carries specific information. A small volume of the brain contains a lot of information some exhaustively exist in that volume and some partially. The information is stored in neurons that are in proximity to each other because it is economical. Proximity however does not essentially mean the closest spatially.
Are there brain parts that don't "store 'information'" in your view?
I think so. I am a dualist so I think that the brain holds information mainly. That is the mind, most importantly the subconscious mind which is in charge of reading and writing information in the brain. The conscious mind has high-level duties. The conscious mind and subconscious mind are connected through the brain too. Therefore, there are parts of the brain that their sole responsibility is to allow different minds to interact.
?? So which brain parts do you think don't "store 'information'"?
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:27 pm What is the subconscious mind?
A mind that is in charge of low-level activities, all instinct related activities. The conscious mind mostly is in charge of logical thinking. Both minds are however conscious. The worlds they experience are however different. They exchange information too, such as sensory information that the conscious mind experiences which is provided by the subconscious mind.
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bahman
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Re: How do we recall?

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:33 pm
bahman wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:19 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:02 pm

Are there brain parts that don't "store 'information'" in your view?
I think so. I am a dualist so I think that the brain holds information mainly. That is the mind, most importantly the subconscious mind which is in charge of reading and writing information in the brain. The conscious mind has high-level duties. The conscious mind and subconscious mind are connected through the brain too. Therefore, there are parts of the brain that their sole responsibility is to allow different minds to interact.
?? So which brain parts do you think don't "store 'information'"?
I don't know where exactly.
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