What in the world? I'm not saying that time doesn't exist. I asked you to give evidence of time occurring where there is no change. That's what you claimed is possible, right?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:53 pmI experience time at any period that I am waiting for something. It must exist so my mind gets affected with. How mind could be affected by something which does not exist?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:49 pmWhat would be evidence of having time but no change?
There is a change therefore there is a mind
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
I gave the evidence. I experience the time when I am waiting for change to happen. Flat space-time is also the solution of the general relativity equation when there is no mass.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:14 pmWhat in the world? I'm not saying that time doesn't exist. I asked you to give evidence of time occurring where there is no change. That's what you claimed is possible, right?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:53 pmI experience time at any period that I am waiting for something. It must exist so my mind gets affected with. How mind could be affected by something which does not exist?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:49 pm
What would be evidence of having time but no change?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
When I am waiting, when there is no thought, when the rest of the stuff but time that I experience are motionless.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:24 pmOkay, so detail how you experience time (with no change occurring). What exactly are you experiencing? Thoughts? Something else?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
Right, so you're waiting, there is no thought, and there is evidence of time via what? It sounds like you're not experiencing anything but stasis, so what would be the evidence of time in that state? For example, what would be evidence of seconds or whatever passing?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:34 pmWhen I am waiting, when there is no thought, when the rest of the stuff but time that I experience are motionless.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:24 pmOkay, so detail how you experience time (with no change occurring). What exactly are you experiencing? Thoughts? Something else?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
Just to reiterate, the task isn't only to present evidence of no changes occurring. It's to present evidence of (1) time existing while (2) no changes are occurring. You can't just present evidence of (2) and that's it. We need evidence of (1) too.
Quoting what I said above: "I asked you to give evidence of time occurring where there is no change." What's the evidence of the time part in your example?
Quoting what I said above: "I asked you to give evidence of time occurring where there is no change." What's the evidence of the time part in your example?
Last edited by Terrapin Station on Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
You might be focussing on objects so experience stasis.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 pmRight, so you're waiting, there is no thought, and there is evidence of time via what? It sounds like you're not experiencing anything but stasis, so what would be the evidence of time in that state? For example, what would be evidence of seconds or whatever passing?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:34 pmWhen I am waiting, when there is no thought, when the rest of the stuff but time that I experience are motionless.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:24 pm
Okay, so detail how you experience time (with no change occurring). What exactly are you experiencing? Thoughts? Something else?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
Sure. What you keep ignoring is that you're also supposed to be presenting evidence of time in the example. Where is that?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:52 pmYou might be focussing on objects so experience stasis.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 pmRight, so you're waiting, there is no thought, and there is evidence of time via what? It sounds like you're not experiencing anything but stasis, so what would be the evidence of time in that state? For example, what would be evidence of seconds or whatever passing?
Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
No change is just an approximation of reality.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:52 pm Just to reiterate, the task isn't only to present evidence of no changes occurring. It's to present evidence of (1) time existing while (2) no changes are occurring. You can't just present evidence of (2) and that's it. We need evidence of (1) too.
I gave you two evidences. I experience time when there is no change and flat space-time is the solution of the general relativity equation when there is no mass.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:52 pm Quoting what I said above: "I asked you to give evidence of time occurring where there is no change." What's the evidence of the time part in your example?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
And I'm asking you to detail HOW you experience time. Explain this in detail. Simply claiming it without explaining exactly what it consists of doesn't work. Exactly what do you experience--what are you sensing, thinking, etc.--whatever--that you're counting as time?
Re the other thing, I'm avoiding that for the moment, partially because it has nothing to do with the experience example.
Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
Waiting is the evidence.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:53 pmSure. What you keep ignoring is that you're also supposed to be presenting evidence of time in the example. Where is that?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:52 pmYou might be focussing on objects so experience stasis.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 pm
Right, so you're waiting, there is no thought, and there is evidence of time via what? It sounds like you're not experiencing anything but stasis, so what would be the evidence of time in that state? For example, what would be evidence of seconds or whatever passing?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
If nothing is changing while you're waiting, how would you know any time is passing?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:12 pmWaiting is the evidence.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:53 pmSure. What you keep ignoring is that you're also supposed to be presenting evidence of time in the example. Where is that?
Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
Waiting. Think of being sentenced to 10 years in solitary. It takes time to fill those empty points.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:10 pmAnd I'm asking you to detail HOW you experience time. Explain this in detail. Simply claiming it without explaining exactly what it consists of doesn't work. Exactly what do you experience--what are you sensing, thinking, etc.--whatever--that you're counting as time?
Re the other thing, I'm avoiding that for the moment, partially because it has nothing to do with the experience example.
Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
If nothing changes then there will be no experience so something changes when the object doesn't change. Waiting is the passage of time.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:17 pmIf nothing is changing while you're waiting, how would you know any time is passing?bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:12 pmWaiting is the evidence.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Sure. What you keep ignoring is that you're also supposed to be presenting evidence of time in the example. Where is that?
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Re: There is a change therefore there is a mind
If something changes (otherwise there is no experience, and we're talking about an experience), then this is NOT an example of time with no changes happening.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:25 pmIf nothing changes then there will be no experience so something changes when the object doesn't change. Waiting is the passage of time.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:17 pmIf nothing is changing while you're waiting, how would you know any time is passing?
Again, the task was to give evidence of time occurring where there is no change