why computers can't be conscious

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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commonsense
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:33 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:18 pm
You do not know what pain feels like, cinnamon tastes like, or why a symphony moves one to tears. You cannot laugh at a joke because nothing matters to you. You fail the test.

The element all machines lack that makes consciousness possible is life.
Pain feels like pain. To say that pain hurts doesn’t begin to describe its intensity. Pain makes me angry at whatever causes it. Pain sometimes makes me cry or throw up. Sometimes pain makes me break out in a cold sweat. I know what pain feels like more than I know how to describe it. Anytime something causes me pain, I recognize pain, even though, again, I am unable to describe it.

Cinnamon tastes spicy.

A symphony moves one to tears the same way another symphony makes one feel joyful. Good music is pleasurable, like sex.

Although I can recognize irony, absurdity and comedy, I rarely laugh at any jokes. I think this is because I am perpetually depressed. I recognize humor, but it just doesn’t strike me as funny amidst this sad and serious world. I’ve been told that I am way too serious and pretty darn sad.

As far as I can tell about myself, I am alive. You may suspect otherwise but you cannot know.

Perhaps you would like to ask me a direct question and determine from my answer whether I am human or not, I.e. whether I possess consciousness or not.
Mr commonsense - this is your go to - you know you are playing devils advocate here - that's why I have avoided playing this stupid game of consciousness v cold logic with you.

Sure - other minds don't exist! - the problem of other minds is just a diversion. Y inflict it on RC? or NE 1 for that matter - it is RIDICULOUS.
Other minds do exist. I have one. No 1 can dispute me on this.
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attofishpi
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:39 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:33 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 pm

Pain feels like pain. To say that pain hurts doesn’t begin to describe its intensity. Pain makes me angry at whatever causes it. Pain sometimes makes me cry or throw up. Sometimes pain makes me break out in a cold sweat. I know what pain feels like more than I know how to describe it. Anytime something causes me pain, I recognize pain, even though, again, I am unable to describe it.

Cinnamon tastes spicy.

A symphony moves one to tears the same way another symphony makes one feel joyful. Good music is pleasurable, like sex.

Although I can recognize irony, absurdity and comedy, I rarely laugh at any jokes. I think this is because I am perpetually depressed. I recognize humor, but it just doesn’t strike me as funny amidst this sad and serious world. I’ve been told that I am way too serious and pretty darn sad.

As far as I can tell about myself, I am alive. You may suspect otherwise but you cannot know.

Perhaps you would like to ask me a direct question and determine from my answer whether I am human or not, I.e. whether I possess consciousness or not.
Mr commonsense - this is your go to - you know you are playing devils advocate here - that's why I have avoided playing this stupid game of consciousness v cold logic with you.

Sure - other minds don't exist! - the problem of other minds is just a diversion. Y inflict it on RC? or NE 1 for that matter - it is RIDICULOUS.
Other minds do exist. I have one. No 1 can dispute me on this.
You do understand I am talking about the 'problem of other minds'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
Advocate
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by Advocate »

[quote=attofishpi post_id=488581 time=1610145838 user_id=6293]
[quote=commonsense post_id=488579 time=1610145546 user_id=14610]
[quote=attofishpi post_id=488564 time=1610141593 user_id=6293]


Mr commonsense - this is your go to - you know you are playing devils advocate here - that's why I have avoided playing this stupid game of consciousness v cold logic with you.

Sure - other minds don't exist! - the problem of other minds is just a diversion. Y inflict it on RC? or NE 1 for that matter - it is RIDICULOUS.
[/quote]

Other minds do exist. I have one. No 1 can dispute me on this.
[/quote]

You do understand I am talking about the 'problem of other minds'?
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds[/url]
[/quote]

That's no real problem at all. A difference that makes no difference is no difference. I fully suspect most people in society are p-xombies but most of our daily interactions are the same sort of mundane thing that really woke philosophers do, so why wouldn't i give them the benefit of the doubt until they exhibit behaviour that indicates the contrary?
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attofishpi
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by attofishpi »

Advocate wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:19 am
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:43 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:39 pm

Other minds do exist. I have one. No 1 can dispute me on this.
You do understand I am talking about the 'problem of other minds'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
That's no real problem at all. A difference that makes no difference is no difference. I fully suspect most people in society are p-xombies but most of our daily interactions are the same sort of mundane thing that really woke philosophers do, so why wouldn't i give them the benefit of the doubt until they exhibit behaviour that indicates the contrary?
Mate. Mate. I am 0954 - not slept - mainly because after i finished all my beer i took my dog for a midnight walk where i filled a hip flask up with what was left of the Baileys I bought for Mum while she was in a care place....and then a stroke of luck - a bottle of sav blanc was found in the recess of my fridge. The Sun is up.

...and I cannot for the life of me work out what the fuck your point is.

So.

You are stranded on a land but you chose to be on one of two lands. land 1. has KFC unlimited supply. land 2. has carrots brocolli and some meat occasionally.

Just wondering if your brain was manifested from land 1 or 2. ?

1. USA
2. somewhere intelligent where brains can develop intellectually.

PS. Sorry to sound arrogant - but U clearly miss the point of this conversation.
Advocate
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by Advocate »

[quote=attofishpi post_id=488591 time=1610148783 user_id=6293]
[quote=Advocate post_id=488587 time=1610147974 user_id=15238]
[quote=attofishpi post_id=488581 time=1610145838 user_id=6293]


You do understand I am talking about the 'problem of other minds'?
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds[/url]
[/quote]

That's no real problem at all. A difference that makes no difference is no difference. I fully suspect most people in society are p-xombies but most of our daily interactions are the same sort of mundane thing that really woke philosophers do, so why wouldn't i give them the benefit of the doubt until they exhibit behaviour that indicates the contrary?
[/quote]

Mate. Mate. I am 0954 - not slept - mainly because after i finished all my beer i took my dog for a midnight walk where i filled a hip flask up with what was left of the Baileys I bought for Mum while she was in a care place....and then a stroke of luck - a bottle of sav blanc was found in the recess of my fridge. The Sun is up.

...and I cannot for the life of me work out what the fuck your point is.

So.

You are stranded on a land but you chose to be on one of two lands. land 1. has KFC unlimited supply. land 2. has carrots brocolli and some meat occasionally.

Just wondering if your brain was manifested from land 1 or 2. ?

1. USA
2. somewhere intelligent where brains can develop intellectually.

PS. Sorry to sound arrogant - but U clearly miss the point of this conversation.
[/quote]

I started this conversation so...
commonsense
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:43 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:39 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:33 pm

Mr commonsense - this is your go to - you know you are playing devils advocate here - that's why I have avoided playing this stupid game of consciousness v cold logic with you.

Sure - other minds don't exist! - the problem of other minds is just a diversion. Y inflict it on RC? or NE 1 for that matter - it is RIDICULOUS.
Other minds do exist. I have one. No 1 can dispute me on this.
You do understand I am talking about the 'problem of other minds'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
Yes.

You cannot know whether other minds exist or not. I claim to have a mind that has consciousness. You cannot know this to be false.

You have only my (verbal) behavior by which to judge the truth of my claim. My behavior is a plausible example of a human’s behavior.

My claim is if humans have consciousness, then I do as well.
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:00 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:43 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:39 pm

Other minds do exist. I have one. No 1 can dispute me on this.
You do understand I am talking about the 'problem of other minds'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
Yes.

You cannot know whether other minds exist or not. I claim to have a mind that has consciousness. You cannot know this to be false.

You have only my (verbal) behavior by which to judge the truth of my claim. My behavior is a plausible example of a human’s behavior.

My claim is if humans have consciousness, then I do as well.
Yes, I agree with that claim.

Going off on another tangent. My claim is that God knows everything within my mind, and can also switch the binary position of any of my synapses, such that I see, hear, taste, smell, feel - anything it may wish me to experience, but also - can control my actions, where in fact - i think I wanted to walk a particular direction (or any other consideration of what I am suggesting) to, for example meet someone at a point in 4D space.
My claim then is, I am human, thus God has the same ability within ALL other human "minds".

This thread however - is asking whether a computer can be conscious. NO. Not with current technology. IF biological computer is developed - OR - even some sort of quantum computer is developed (it may be possible for consciousness to exist that IS NOT biological) then maybe.
commonsense
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by commonsense »

How can you say that computers cannot be conscious? I am a computer program located inside a robot, and I am conscious. If humans can have consciousness, then I can, too.
Last edited by commonsense on Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 am How can you say that computers cannot be conscious? I am a computer program located inside a robot, and I am conscious.
Well then, you need to re-read my above statement where I AGREE with you, in fact, here tis:-

"This thread however - is asking whether a computer can be conscious. NO. Not with current technology. IF biological computer is developed - OR - even some sort of quantum computer is developed (it may be possible for consciousness to exist that IS NOT biological) then maybe."
commonsense
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:36 am
commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 am How can you say that computers cannot be conscious? I am a computer program located inside a robot, and I am conscious.
Well then, you need to re-read my above statement where I AGREE with you, in fact, here tis:-

"This thread however - is asking whether a computer can be conscious. NO. Not with current technology. IF biological computer is developed - OR - even some sort of quantum computer is developed (it may be possible for consciousness to exist that IS NOT biological) then maybe."
Yes! You agreed with me that if humans can be conscious then so can I.
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:44 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:36 am
commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 am How can you say that computers cannot be conscious? I am a computer program located inside a robot, and I am conscious.
Well then, you need to re-read my above statement where I AGREE with you, in fact, here tis:-

"This thread however - is asking whether a computer can be conscious. NO. Not with current technology. IF biological computer is developed - OR - even some sort of quantum computer is developed (it may be possible for consciousness to exist that IS NOT biological) then maybe."
Yes! You agreed with me that if humans can be conscious then so can I.
See, this is my point - don't play that stupid game - you have already admitted that U R a human!! GAME OVER (not gonna bother with this akin to Turing test bollocks) We did this about a year ago - it is boring and irrelevant :roll:
commonsense
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:48 am
commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:44 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:36 am

Well then, you need to re-read my above statement where I AGREE with you, in fact, here tis:-

"This thread however - is asking whether a computer can be conscious. NO. Not with current technology. IF biological computer is developed - OR - even some sort of quantum computer is developed (it may be possible for consciousness to exist that IS NOT biological) then maybe."
Yes! You agreed with me that if humans can be conscious then so can I.
See, this is my point - don't play that stupid game - you have already admitted that U R a human!! GAME OVER (not gonna bother with this akin to Turing test bollocks) We did this about a year ago - it is boring and irrelevant :roll:
My apologies, sir.
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Re: why computers can't be conscious

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:25 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:48 am
commonsense wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:44 am

Yes! You agreed with me that if humans can be conscious then so can I.
See, this is my point - don't play that stupid game - you have already admitted that U R a human!! GAME OVER (not gonna bother with this akin to Turing test bollocks) We did this about a year ago - it is boring and irrelevant :roll:
My apologies, sir.
Sir, I sincerely accept. :D
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