Conscious is passive in materialism

[SteveKlinko]

Science has no Clue what Conscious Experience is. You only think there is a Clue because you are not thinking this through to the final stage of the processing needed for the Experience itself. Redness, Standard A Tone, and Salty taste are some of the things you refuse to consider and demand Explanations for.

There's a kind of backward thinking that the Materialists do. It goes sort of like this: "Science is the best method we have for getting at the physical stuff in the world; therefore, science must be the explanation for everything." They then assume their own conclusion -- namely, that the final answer whenever we learn what consciousness is must be, and can only be, a physical explanation, and then they confidently argue against anybody who tries to seek out a better explanation. But that's why they're not particularly disturbed when you say, "Science has no clue what conscious experience is." In the backs of their minds, the response is, "Yeah, but when it's found, it's going to be nothing but some form of Materialism."

And they think they know this, because they've already ruled out of their own thinking that there can be any other kind of explanation.

Of course, their confidence is completely unjustified. It's not more bright than if they'd said, "Economics explains poverty very well, so it also must turn out to be the explanation for cancer." If the two entities in question are actually of different orders, then forcing an explanation from one realm to fit another just produces really absurd conclusions.

In fact, science itself is a product of consciousness. That is, it's a product of humans' unique ability to think, reason, categorize, structure and test things. Animals, which are as fully possessed of physicality as humans are, do not have science, and cannot do science. Science itself is a mental operation, not a physical-causal material complex. Science itself is thus of a different order from materials. Heck, even Materialism is a belief, and is thus of a different order from the causal-material complex.

Excellent analysis.

[SteveKlinko]

Funny how you employ the discoveries of materialism to attmept to refute it. LOL
If materialism/physicalism cannot explain volition than no one can.
Materialism have given us all the details for a perfect description of volition which includes neurones, hormones, enzymes and much more.
What have you got? Nothing!

Better to admit I don't know than deceive myself with false understanding, because you also have Nothing. That is what I am trying to tell you. Science has no Clue what Conscious Experience is. You only think there is a Clue because you are not thinking this through to the final stage of the processing needed for the Experience itself. Redness, Standard A Tone, and Salty taste are some of the things you refuse to consider and demand Explanations for.

Since no one knows what consciousness is, the claim that science does not either is nothing more than empty air.

But I am talking to the, way too many, people that believe that Science has solved the Problem of Conscious Experience.

[Immanuel Can]

Excellent analysis.

Thank you. All to say, I think you're right, and have good reason for what you said about science.

[Sculptor]

Better to admit I don't know than deceive myself with false understanding, because you also have Nothing. That is what I am trying to tell you. Science has no Clue what Conscious Experience is. You only think there is a Clue because you are not thinking this through to the final stage of the processing needed for the Experience itself. Redness, Standard A Tone, and Salty taste are some of the things you refuse to consider and demand Explanations for.

Since no one knows what consciousness is, the claim that science does not either is nothing more than empty air.

But I am talking to the, way too many, people that believe that Science has solved the Problem of Conscious Experience.

No you aint.
You are talking to people that you are making strawmen of.

[SteveKlinko]

Since no one knows what consciousness is, the claim that science does not either is nothing more than empty air.

But I am talking to the, way too many, people that believe that Science has solved the Problem of Conscious Experience.

No you aint.
You are talking to people that you are making strawmen of.

Not making Strawmen, just relaying my Experience with people on many Forums over the last couple years.

[Sculptor]

But I am talking to the, way too many, people that believe that Science has solved the Problem of Conscious Experience.

No you aint.
You are talking to people that you are making strawmen of.

Not making Strawmen, just relaying my Experience with people on many Forums over the last couple years.

Okay so what EXACTLY is the problem and to what degree is ANY explanation for any thing less worthy than that offered by science on this topic.

[SteveKlinko]

No you aint.
You are talking to people that you are making strawmen of.

Not making Strawmen, just relaying my Experience with people on many Forums over the last couple years.

Okay so what EXACTLY is the problem and to what degree is ANY explanation for any thing less worthy than that offered by science on this topic.

You are implying that Science does have some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Problem is that Science does not even have the first Clue about what Conscious Experience could be. Science tells us all kinds of things about the Brain, but nowhere does Science connect all the knowledge of the Brain to Consciousness. All Science can say is that Conscious Experience is related to Brain Activity. But we have known that for a Hundred years. Science has solved the Easy Problem (mapping Conscious Experience to Brain areas), but is silent on the Hard Problem (how does activity in these Brain areas produce the Conscious Experience?).

[Sculptor]

Not making Strawmen, just relaying my Experience with people on many Forums over the last couple years.

Okay so what EXACTLY is the problem and to what degree is ANY explanation for any thing less worthy than that offered by science on this topic.

You are implying that Science does have some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience.

Science shows us HOW.

The Problem is that Science does not even have the first Clue about what Conscious Experience could be.

Bullshit. Science is comprised of scientist. Scientists are humans and have AT LEAST as much clue as anybody - with the addition that they can demonstrate how it works.
You and I only have our own experience- which all scientists share. We have nothing more ot offer. Only science has something to offer in thise respect.

Science tells us all kinds of things about the Brain, but nowhere does Science connect all the knowledge of the Brain to Consciousness.

Well excuse me. Before science it was not even know that the brain was involved. Maybe you do not think that is useful. Maybe you still think it is all in the heart?

All Science can say is that Conscious Experience is related to Brain Activity. But we have known that for a Hundred years.

WHo the FUCK is "WE"?? LOL

Science has solved the Easy Problem (mapping Conscious Experience to Brain areas), but is silent on the Hard Problem (how does activity in these Brain areas produce the Conscious Experience?).

Have you got anything better?
NO.