What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Skepdick wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
I think I know what's going on with your Insecure message. I will need to talk to my Service Provider to fix that. There is a new requirement to always use https, but I am using http. Thank You for pointing that out. Nobody is going to be hacking my little website so I would not worry about it.
Skepdick
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Skepdick »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
So much misapprehension in so few words (plus your prior history of crying wolf).

Have you considered the possibility that you suffer from excessive paranoia?
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:28 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
It is not an executable but it is Interpreted by the server software. You can click on a link from the main page to display a Live Stream of the results of an Experiment that is explained on the main page. What software is saying it is not secure?
Okay. I wasn't sure given I haven't particularly dealt with asp. I was referencing the secure protocol of the pages.[http versus https] I'm guessing it doesn't matter unless you are inputing data or downloading. But I understood that securing a site also formally asserts the owner's of the site are using SAFE etiquette. Without that, we could be vulnerable as long as any program, server or client side, lack the standards that both protect the client side AND grants legitimacy of the software being used. You can make any executable be triggered with any association. So "... .asp" could assign ".asp" to trigger some illegitimate software, technically. I'm just being cautious.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:21 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
So much misapprehension in so few words (plus your prior history of crying wolf).

Have you considered the possibility that you suffer from excessive paranoia?
Thanks for pointing this out for others. But when I am aware of any faulty logic on my part, I also FIX it. I have a right to appear "paranoid" online. But the term inappropriately presumes something about my integrity and not merely my potential for being mistaken. See my last post above.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:49 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
I think I know what's going on with your Insecure message. I will need to talk to my Service Provider to fix that. There is a new requirement to always use https, but I am using http. Thank You for pointing that out. Nobody is going to be hacking my little website so I would not worry about it.
Yes. I just responded to this point in my response to your prior post. To repeat, this is just being cautious. I tend not to have the problems online that others do precisely for being relatively safe. Given I am not yet completely familiar with all security issues for networking, I try to point this out. Hackers DO use social media links to get others to inadvertently click or go to other sites. This is not a comment on you personally.
Skepdick
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Skepdick »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:36 pm Thanks for pointing this out for others. But when I am aware of any faulty logic on my part, I also FIX it. I have a right to appear "paranoid" online. But the term inappropriately presumes something about my integrity and not merely my potential for being mistaken. See my last post above.
Your integrity is not being brought into question - it's a simple application of Hanlon's razor.

Since the content you are accessing is hardly deemed sensitive or stateful/interactive, the refusal to access website without encryption is only explicable as paranoia. Especially since malicious actors can acquire SSL certificates for free.

https://letsencrypt.org/
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:46 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:36 pm Thanks for pointing this out for others. But when I am aware of any faulty logic on my part, I also FIX it. I have a right to appear "paranoid" online. But the term inappropriately presumes something about my integrity and not merely my potential for being mistaken. See my last post above.
Your integrity is not being brought into question - it's a simple application of Hanlon's razor.

Since the content you are accessing is hardly deemed sensitive or stateful/interactive, the refusal to access website without encryption is only explicable as paranoia. Especially since malicious actors can acquire SSL certificates for free.

https://letsencrypt.org/
Bullshit! You are alright to do what you like. But don't tell me nor others that this is paranoia. Your attitude is both naive and risks others by playing this down. The following link by Google explains the reasons explicitly.

https://developers.google.com/search/do ... t-is-https

Note that besides the normal concern regarding payments (#1 on the list), #2 and #3 here express the significance of securing our normal activity, such as here on this site, and to the nature of 'authentication'. This makes sure that the site's owner's or clients are held accountable should anything like inappropriate behavior occurs and can be traced.
Data sent using HTTPS is secured via Transport Layer Security protocol (TLS), which provides three key layers of protection:

1. Encryption—encrypting the exchanged data to keep it secure from eavesdroppers. That means that while the user is browsing a website, nobody can "listen" to their conversations, track their activities across multiple pages, or steal their information.

2. Data integrity—data cannot be modified or corrupted during transfer, intentionally or otherwise, without being detected.

3. Authentication—proves that your users communicate with the intended website. It protects against man-in-the-middle attacks and builds user trust, which translates into other business benefits.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Skepdick wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
It's just a static website thatt publishes a document that mixes 17th century theory of mind, with 21st century science words filling in for the Cartesian woowoo. It doesn't need to be secured, there is nothing private in the communication between server and client. It might however need rethinking as a thesis. The author would be well advised to read Rorty, Strawson or Kripke to get some help with that ghost in the machine problem he has there.

You are the one who had the panic attack because Advocate switched off BBCode and started squealing about hackers aren't you? Maybe just don't give Klinko your bank details and mother's maiden name.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:32 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
It's just a static website thatt publishes a document that mixes 17th century theory of mind, with 21st century science words filling in for the Cartesian woowoo. It doesn't need to be secured, there is nothing private in the communication between server and client. It might however need rethinking as a thesis. The author would be well advised to read Rorty, Strawson or Kripke to get some help with that ghost in the machine problem he has there.

You are the one who had the panic attack because Advocate switched off BBCode and started squealing about hackers aren't you? Maybe just don't give Klinko your bank details and mother's maiden name.
You missed, the *.asp link above. I didn't deny panicking and it wasn't Steve calling me 'paranoid'. I mentioned that I 'fix' what I said wrong and did apologize to Advocate and altered the title of the original thread to reflect it and mark my mistake here. But see the above post and note that I am not familiar enough to know how safe or not ASP files are.
What is an ASP file?

An ASP file is a webpage created by a web developer that resides on a web server and may contain scripts written in VBScript or JavaScript. It is parsed on the server, which generates HTML that is sent to the client's browser. ASP files are commonly used by ASP.NET sites and websites hosted on Windows servers running Microsoft IIS. [from https://fileinfo.com/extension/asp]
I still haven't figured out which programs or files are which. If I get into webpage design, I might have been better informed. I'd rather be safe than sorry and don't need to mention this again.
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:32 am It's just a static website thatt publishes a document that mixes 17th century theory of mind, with 21st century science words filling in for the Cartesian woowoo. It doesn't need to be secured, there is nothing private in the communication between server and client. It might however need rethinking as a thesis. The author would be well advised to read Rorty, Strawson or Kripke to get some help with that ghost in the machine problem he has there.
Descartes is a standard punching bag for disgruntled Physicalists. Dualism is back in town. Get used to it.
Skepdick
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Skepdick »

Scott Mayers wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:43 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:46 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:36 pm Thanks for pointing this out for others. But when I am aware of any faulty logic on my part, I also FIX it. I have a right to appear "paranoid" online. But the term inappropriately presumes something about my integrity and not merely my potential for being mistaken. See my last post above.
Your integrity is not being brought into question - it's a simple application of Hanlon's razor.

Since the content you are accessing is hardly deemed sensitive or stateful/interactive, the refusal to access website without encryption is only explicable as paranoia. Especially since malicious actors can acquire SSL certificates for free.

https://letsencrypt.org/
Bullshit! You are alright to do what you like. But don't tell me nor others that this is paranoia. Your attitude is both naive and risks others by playing this down. The following link by Google explains the reasons explicitly.

https://developers.google.com/search/do ... t-is-https

Note that besides the normal concern regarding payments (#1 on the list), #2 and #3 here express the significance of securing our normal activity, such as here on this site, and to the nature of 'authentication'. This makes sure that the site's owner's or clients are held accountable should anything like inappropriate behavior occurs and can be traced.
Data sent using HTTPS is secured via Transport Layer Security protocol (TLS), which provides three key layers of protection:

1. Encryption—encrypting the exchanged data to keep it secure from eavesdroppers. That means that while the user is browsing a website, nobody can "listen" to their conversations, track their activities across multiple pages, or steal their information.

2. Data integrity—data cannot be modified or corrupted during transfer, intentionally or otherwise, without being detected.

3. Authentication—proves that your users communicate with the intended website. It protects against man-in-the-middle attacks and builds user trust, which translates into other business benefits.
I understand all of the above. The information security industry is where I cut my teeth.

You could say that I am a hacker. In the non-nefarious use of the term.

You are over-exaggerating the risk. Because there literally isn't any. No amount of "authentication" is going to help you if you if your browser is incapable of safely handling untrusted data.

Rest most assured that it's in absolutely nobody's interest to intercept your communications and modify the content you are requesting. You are creating unnecessary panic by playing this up.
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Skepdick wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
My service provider moved my website to a secure server. It now uses https. See: http://TheInterMind.com. Even if you type in http it will still redirect to the secure server and use https.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by FlashDangerpants »

SteveKlinko wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:32 am It's just a static website thatt publishes a document that mixes 17th century theory of mind, with 21st century science words filling in for the Cartesian woowoo. It doesn't need to be secured, there is nothing private in the communication between server and client. It might however need rethinking as a thesis. The author would be well advised to read Rorty, Strawson or Kripke to get some help with that ghost in the machine problem he has there.
Descartes is a standard punching bag for disgruntled Physicalists. Dualism is back in town. Get used to it.
Meh. The quality of the presented matter is too low for me to invest effort in this.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 800
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:55 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:32 am It's just a static website thatt publishes a document that mixes 17th century theory of mind, with 21st century science words filling in for the Cartesian woowoo. It doesn't need to be secured, there is nothing private in the communication between server and client. It might however need rethinking as a thesis. The author would be well advised to read Rorty, Strawson or Kripke to get some help with that ghost in the machine problem he has there.
Descartes is a standard punching bag for disgruntled Physicalists. Dualism is back in town. Get used to it.
Meh. The quality of the presented matter is too low for me to invest effort in this.
Bye.
Scott Mayers
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:53 am

Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:44 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
My service provider moved my website to a secure server. It now uses https. See: http://TheInterMind.com. Even if you type in http it will still redirect to the secure server and use https.
Thanks Steve. I'll check it out later. [My consciousness is pulling me away to other threads at the moment.] We have likely common agreement on 'consciousness' or, where we differ, it might be a matter of different classifications and definitions only.
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