What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Scott Mayers
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What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

"Consciousness" is the set of activity communicating between two different points in space OF two distinct material beings (regardless of what they are) dependent upon ONLY those subparts in each of them that share the same logical structure AND is able and succeeds in transferring some message between each other at the simultaneous point in time at least one of them completes the communication cycle.

This is a long sentence but I wanted to include all the significant parts. So, for example, If we have two humans in different spaces at some point in time who are communicating with each other, the literal exchange of information through the media between them act as their shared consciousness when at least one of them receives the completed message of the other. [Although it may require both for truly 'shared' consciousness, the 'at least one' defines half of the two people as being relatively conscious of the other. But both need to be true for strong affiliated consciousness.

Another example: Given a person and a dog, since these beings are different, we have to ONLY look at the physical constructs they have in common, such as having brains and being mammals. This limits the degree to success of 'shared consciousness' but is at least required. Also, the medium between the two have to be real as well. The more close they are, the stronger the consciousness. When they are communicating (intentional or not), the energy representing this exchange is the activity of consciousness that then requires successful 'contact' to at least one of them. That one able to receive this is relatively 'conscious' . When the dog hears the person speak, the dog is conscious if it can hear and receive the message successfully. Then if the dog complies as the human recognizes it appears to understand, they share a relative 'consciousness'.

Another: Take two electrons at some given distance in space beteen each other. They have the same identical logical structure. Thus they have better capacity to share stronger conscious states than an electron and a proton (assuming some actual degree of distinction atomically speaking). Then if the energy each sends out (without intent, we can likely assume), they are conscious of each other when the energy of at least one is completely received to the other. So they are 'more conscious' if they are close to each other. If they are barred from even the potential of communication, they are not.

Consciousness is specifically defined here to be a type of 'energy' versus matter, but still dependent upon being matter and require having a medium between the two point, dependent on their common denominating structures, their degree of proximity, the degree of completion of the energy exchange and, how well in sync they are with regards to frequency, and to how well they differ in the particular way while being in sync (their phase).


Although this is MY definition and involves a lot more depth to understand the motive and proof of this, this suffices to completely describe what "consciousness" is AND means that all things have some degree.
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:48 pm "Consciousness" is the set of activity communicating between two different points in space OF two distinct material beings (regardless of what they are) dependent upon ONLY those subparts in each of them that share the same logical structure AND is able and succeeds in transferring some message between each other at the simultaneous point in time at least one of them completes the communication cycle.

This is a long sentence but I wanted to include all the significant parts. So, for example, If we have two humans in different spaces at some point in time who are communicating with each other, the literal exchange of information through the media between them act as their shared consciousness when at least one of them receives the completed message of the other. [Although it may require both for truly 'shared' consciousness, the 'at least one' defines half of the two people as being relatively conscious of the other. But both need to be true for strong affiliated consciousness.

Another example: Given a person and a dog, since these beings are different, we have to ONLY look at the physical constructs they have in common, such as having brains and being mammals. This limits the degree to success of 'shared consciousness' but is at least required. Also, the medium between the two have to be real as well. The more close they are, the stronger the consciousness. When they are communicating (intentional or not), the energy representing this exchange is the activity of consciousness that then requires successful 'contact' to at least one of them. That one able to receive this is relatively 'conscious' . When the dog hears the person speak, the dog is conscious if it can hear and receive the message successfully. Then if the dog complies as the human recognizes it appears to understand, they share a relative 'consciousness'.

Another: Take two electrons at some given distance in space beteen each other. They have the same identical logical structure. Thus they have better capacity to share stronger conscious states than an electron and a proton (assuming some actual degree of distinction atomically speaking). Then if the energy each sends out (without intent, we can likely assume), they are conscious of each other when the energy of at least one is completely received to the other. So they are 'more conscious' if they are close to each other. If they are barred from even the potential of communication, they are not.

Consciousness is specifically defined here to be a type of 'energy' versus matter, but still dependent upon being matter and require having a medium between the two point, dependent on their common denominating structures, their degree of proximity, the degree of completion of the energy exchange and, how well in sync they are with regards to frequency, and to how well they differ in the particular way while being in sync (their phase).


Although this is MY definition and involves a lot more depth to understand the motive and proof of this, this suffices to completely describe what "consciousness" is AND means that all things have some degree.
You might be interested in this point of view: http://theintermind.com/#_Toc337459236.
Scott Mayers
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:53 am

Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:07 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:48 pm "Consciousness" is the set of activity communicating between two different points in space OF two distinct material beings (regardless of what they are) dependent upon ONLY those subparts in each of them that share the same logical structure AND is able and succeeds in transferring some message between each other at the simultaneous point in time at least one of them completes the communication cycle.

This is a long sentence but I wanted to include all the significant parts. So, for example, If we have two humans in different spaces at some point in time who are communicating with each other, the literal exchange of information through the media between them act as their shared consciousness when at least one of them receives the completed message of the other. [Although it may require both for truly 'shared' consciousness, the 'at least one' defines half of the two people as being relatively conscious of the other. But both need to be true for strong affiliated consciousness.

Another example: Given a person and a dog, since these beings are different, we have to ONLY look at the physical constructs they have in common, such as having brains and being mammals. This limits the degree to success of 'shared consciousness' but is at least required. Also, the medium between the two have to be real as well. The more close they are, the stronger the consciousness. When they are communicating (intentional or not), the energy representing this exchange is the activity of consciousness that then requires successful 'contact' to at least one of them. That one able to receive this is relatively 'conscious' . When the dog hears the person speak, the dog is conscious if it can hear and receive the message successfully. Then if the dog complies as the human recognizes it appears to understand, they share a relative 'consciousness'.

Another: Take two electrons at some given distance in space beteen each other. They have the same identical logical structure. Thus they have better capacity to share stronger conscious states than an electron and a proton (assuming some actual degree of distinction atomically speaking). Then if the energy each sends out (without intent, we can likely assume), they are conscious of each other when the energy of at least one is completely received to the other. So they are 'more conscious' if they are close to each other. If they are barred from even the potential of communication, they are not.

Consciousness is specifically defined here to be a type of 'energy' versus matter, but still dependent upon being matter and require having a medium between the two point, dependent on their common denominating structures, their degree of proximity, the degree of completion of the energy exchange and, how well in sync they are with regards to frequency, and to how well they differ in the particular way while being in sync (their phase).


Although this is MY definition and involves a lot more depth to understand the motive and proof of this, this suffices to completely describe what "consciousness" is AND means that all things have some degree.
You might be interested in this point of view: http://theintermind.com/#_Toc337459236.
Thank you for the link. It looks relatable to the topic as it applies to the SETI project when trying to determine IF some other intellectual life is able to be like our 'consciousness' should we discover it.
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:47 pm Thank you for the link. It looks relatable to the topic as it applies to the SETI project when trying to determine IF some other intellectual life is able to be like our 'consciousness' should we discover it.
The link was actually supposed to point to the topic "Communication Using The Inter Mind Model" which is above the SETI topic.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:23 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:47 pm Thank you for the link. It looks relatable to the topic as it applies to the SETI project when trying to determine IF some other intellectual life is able to be like our 'consciousness' should we discover it.
The link was actually supposed to point to the topic "Communication Using The Inter Mind Model" which is above the SETI topic.
Okay. I only glimpsed at it briefly and may look at it later. Since SETI is the "Search for ExtraTerestrial Intelligence", this must have been placed there as related to the topic.(?) ....given SETI is set up to discover ET 'conscious' beings, of course.

Note that I prefer that if we are discussing definitions here among us, outside homework about other models isn't relevant unless you wanted to quote their own definition of 'consciousness' in contrast. Thank you anyways.
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:57 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:23 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:47 pm Thank you for the link. It looks relatable to the topic as it applies to the SETI project when trying to determine IF some other intellectual life is able to be like our 'consciousness' should we discover it.
The link was actually supposed to point to the topic "Communication Using The Inter Mind Model" which is above the SETI topic.
Okay. I only glimpsed at it briefly and may look at it later. Since SETI is the "Search for ExtraTerestrial Intelligence", this must have been placed there as related to the topic.(?) ....given SETI is set up to discover ET 'conscious' beings, of course.

Note that I prefer that if we are discussing definitions here among us, outside homework about other models isn't relevant unless you wanted to quote their own definition of 'consciousness' in contrast. Thank you anyways.
I thought that since your definition seemed to be about Communications between Minds that the link would be appropriate. It is how Communication would happen using the Inter Mind Model of Consciousness.
Scott Mayers
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:53 am

Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:09 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:57 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:23 pm

The link was actually supposed to point to the topic "Communication Using The Inter Mind Model" which is above the SETI topic.
Okay. I only glimpsed at it briefly and may look at it later. Since SETI is the "Search for ExtraTerestrial Intelligence", this must have been placed there as related to the topic.(?) ....given SETI is set up to discover ET 'conscious' beings, of course.

Note that I prefer that if we are discussing definitions here among us, outside homework about other models isn't relevant unless you wanted to quote their own definition of 'consciousness' in contrast. Thank you anyways.
I thought that since your definition seemed to be about Communications between Minds that the link would be appropriate. It is how Communication would happen using the Inter Mind Model of Consciousness.
I'd have to read the whole thing and all its links just to get the definitions of multiple other things being used there. It isn't relevant to be concerned about for a single definition. It is also someone's proprietary view of some specific opinion. You can link me to alternative definitions if you like. But to discuss whole models is an investment beyond my intent here.
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:34 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:09 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:57 pm
Okay. I only glimpsed at it briefly and may look at it later. Since SETI is the "Search for ExtraTerestrial Intelligence", this must have been placed there as related to the topic.(?) ....given SETI is set up to discover ET 'conscious' beings, of course.

Note that I prefer that if we are discussing definitions here among us, outside homework about other models isn't relevant unless you wanted to quote their own definition of 'consciousness' in contrast. Thank you anyways.
I thought that since your definition seemed to be about Communications between Minds that the link would be appropriate. It is how Communication would happen using the Inter Mind Model of Consciousness.
I'd have to read the whole thing and all its links just to get the definitions of multiple other things being used there. It isn't relevant to be concerned about for a single definition. It is also someone's proprietary view of some specific opinion. You can link me to alternative definitions if you like. But to discuss whole models is an investment beyond my intent here.
I completely understand. You are convinced you are on the right track and don't want to get side tracked. You could be right. I could be right. But it will probably be somebody else in the future that ultimately figures it out. It is however fun trying.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:11 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:34 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:09 pm
I thought that since your definition seemed to be about Communications between Minds that the link would be appropriate. It is how Communication would happen using the Inter Mind Model of Consciousness.
I'd have to read the whole thing and all its links just to get the definitions of multiple other things being used there. It isn't relevant to be concerned about for a single definition. It is also someone's proprietary view of some specific opinion. You can link me to alternative definitions if you like. But to discuss whole models is an investment beyond my intent here.
I completely understand. You are convinced you are on the right track and don't want to get side tracked. You could be right. I could be right. But it will probably be somebody else in the future that ultimately figures it out. It is however fun trying.
I agree. That Inter Mind model could be related and fit with my definition. Why did you think of it though? Did you read it completely ...and follow?

Regardless, it helps to define the term even if it is a working definition on philosophy. Mind you, I'm having difficulty for many here who don't like definitions. My OP doesn't formally define it as I would want to but I thought opening it with that might get some to discuss it.

How would or were you defining it? Or, if you can't decide or settle on one, which ones were you weighing as more favorable?
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:55 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:11 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:34 pm

I'd have to read the whole thing and all its links just to get the definitions of multiple other things being used there. It isn't relevant to be concerned about for a single definition. It is also someone's proprietary view of some specific opinion. You can link me to alternative definitions if you like. But to discuss whole models is an investment beyond my intent here.
I completely understand. You are convinced you are on the right track and don't want to get side tracked. You could be right. I could be right. But it will probably be somebody else in the future that ultimately figures it out. It is however fun trying.
I agree. That Inter Mind model could be related and fit with my definition. Why did you think of it though? Did you read it completely ...and follow?

Regardless, it helps to define the term even if it is a working definition on philosophy. Mind you, I'm having difficulty for many here who don't like definitions. My OP doesn't formally define it as I would want to but I thought opening it with that might get some to discuss it.

How would or were you defining it? Or, if you can't decide or settle on one, which ones were you weighing as more favorable?
My interest is from an Engineering point of view. I tried to reverse Engineer the Visual System and got stuck at the point where Sensory Neural Activity becomes Conscious Sensory Experiences. So I have been driven to concentrate on Sensory Experiences. I want to know what Redness is, what Standard A Toneness is, and what Salty Tasteness is. I want to know what the Conscious Thing that Experiences these things is. So my basic definition for Consciousness is that it is the Thing that Experiences these Conscious Sensory things.
Skepdick
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Skepdick »

So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
SteveKlinko
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:10 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:55 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:11 pm

I completely understand. You are convinced you are on the right track and don't want to get side tracked. You could be right. I could be right. But it will probably be somebody else in the future that ultimately figures it out. It is however fun trying.
I agree. That Inter Mind model could be related and fit with my definition. Why did you think of it though? Did you read it completely ...and follow?

Regardless, it helps to define the term even if it is a working definition on philosophy. Mind you, I'm having difficulty for many here who don't like definitions. My OP doesn't formally define it as I would want to but I thought opening it with that might get some to discuss it.

How would or were you defining it? Or, if you can't decide or settle on one, which ones were you weighing as more favorable?
My interest is from an Engineering point of view. I tried to reverse Engineer the Visual System and got stuck at the point where Sensory Neural Activity becomes Conscious Sensory Experiences. So I have been driven to concentrate on Sensory Experiences. I want to know what Redness is, what Standard A Toneness is, and what Salty Tasteness is. I want to know what the Conscious Thing that Experiences these things is. So my basic definition for Consciousness is that it is the Thing that Experiences these Conscious Sensory things.
You'd have to make the program have a 'motive' it necessarily has to be determined to follow by seeking its environment first. But I think it is just a logical 'structure' that is assigned arbitrarily during the first experiences of the sensor in biology that is unique to all others. My logical structure of 'redness' could possibly differ from another person or animal. It shouldn't be necessary to define the sensations beyond the arbitrary assignment of a 'constant' structure to define its form. Then when the brain (computer) seeks its environment, redness, as a sample sensation is the complex associations of that initial arbitrary assignment and is 'shaped' by how the phenomena triggers all those associations to fine tune its structure. Eventually, the structure of my 'redness' should then approach a universal form of 'redness' by all others.
Scott Mayers
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Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by Scott Mayers »

SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Skepdick wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
SteveKlinko
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Contact:

Re: What 'consciousness' is more precisely....

Post by SteveKlinko »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:31 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Skepdick wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm So while you are talking about SETI, and the inter-mind model of communication, and extra-terrestrial consciousness exactly in the week in which Arecibo collapsed, I figured this movie scene from Contact is relevant:

https://youtu.be/sWrWZaPnFzY?t=59
Nice Philosophical speech. I understand the Awe and Mystery. Still waiting on my first contact with Conscious Space. The Experiment that I hope will let me do that is still running at: http://www.theintermind.com/MachConExpe ... riment.asp.
I won't check your link given it is both an insecured sight AND the ".asp" is an executable. But what is this supposed to be (assuming you are not hacking anyone?)
It is not an executable but it is Interpreted by the server software. You can click on a link from the main page to display a Live Stream of the results of an Experiment that is explained on the main page. What software is saying it is not secure?
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