The Genius of The Tulpa

[Advocate]

When you drive and take a drink, you're literally multi-tasking. Isn't this at least the beginnings of a dual consciousness? Consciousness begins as a theory of mind, and Self is theory of mind turned inward. I believe the idea of personifying our subconscious is the next step in human evolution.

[henry quirk]

When you drive and take a drink, you're literally multi-tasking. Isn't this at least the beginnings of a dual consciousness? Consciousness begins as a theory of mind, and Self is theory of mind turned inward. I believe the idea of personifying our subconscious is the next step in human evolution.

bicameralists say we been there, done that

they say a divided consciousness is what we evolved away from

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481549 time=1606314264 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481312 time=1606169483 user_id=15238]
When you drive and take a drink, you're literally multi-tasking. Isn't this at least the beginnings of a dual consciousness? Consciousness begins as a theory of mind, and Self is theory of mind turned inward. I believe the idea of personifying our subconscious is the next step in human evolution.
[/quote]

bicameralists say we been there, done that

they say a divided consciousness is what we evolved away from
[/quote]

That was deification, not personalization; believing the subconscious was already "other", and had exceptional abilities. Also that is about the original consciousness, the first "i am", not an extended one, yes? I haven't read The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind yet but in passingly familiar with it's contents, or is there another bit of bicamerality out there?

[henry quirk]

That was deification, not personalization; believing the subconscious was already "other", and had exceptional abilities.

what the cognitive bicameralists say is: what was deified was the very real divided consciousness...these early folks literally had a voice in their heads, say the bicameralists, that was recognized as other...your idea of personifying the subconscious sounds like that (not the deification part, but the recognizin' the subconscious as other)...if so, how is this a step forward?

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481608 time=1606351933 user_id=472]
[b]That was deification, not personalization; believing the subconscious was already "other", and had exceptional abilities.[/b]

what the cognitive bicameralists say is: what was deified was the very real divided consciousness...these early folks literally had a voice in their heads, say the bicameralists, that was recognized as [i]other[/i]...your idea of personifying the subconscious sounds like that (not the deification part, but the recognizin' the subconscious as [i]other[/i])...if so, how is this a step forward?
[/quote]

One is a pre-conscious god of the gaps and other is an intentional moral agent. How could it not be?

[henry quirk]

That was deification, not personalization; believing the subconscious was already "other", and had exceptional abilities.

what the cognitive bicameralists say is: what was deified was the very real divided consciousness...these early folks literally had a voice in their heads, say the bicameralists, that was recognized as other...your idea of personifying the subconscious sounds like that (not the deification part, but the recognizin' the subconscious as other)...if so, how is this a step forward?

One is a pre-conscious god of the gaps and other is an intentional moral agent. How could it not be?

either way, you're talkin' about divided consciousness, and I ain't seein' how that's a step forward

and: I'm already an intentional moral agent: why do I need a daemon in my head?

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481615 time=1606356238 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481611 time=1606353339 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481608 time=1606351933 user_id=472]
[b]That was deification, not personalization; believing the subconscious was already "other", and had exceptional abilities.[/b]

what the cognitive bicameralists say is: what was deified was the very real divided consciousness...these early folks literally had a voice in their heads, say the bicameralists, that was recognized as [i]other[/i]...your idea of personifying the subconscious sounds like that (not the deification part, but the recognizin' the subconscious as [i]other[/i])...if so, how is this a step forward?
[/quote]

One is a pre-conscious god of the gaps and other is an intentional moral agent. How could it not be?
[/quote]

either way, you're talkin' about divided consciousness, and I ain't seein' how that's a step forward

and: I'm already an intentional moral agent: why do I need a daemon in my head?
[/quote]

Because your subconscious, like everyone else's, could benefit from some reining in.

[henry quirk]

One is a pre-conscious god of the gaps and other is an intentional moral agent. How could it not be?

either way, you're talkin' about divided consciousness, and I ain't seein' how that's a step forward

and: I'm already an intentional moral agent: why do I need a daemon in my head?

Because your subconscious, like everyone else's, could benefit from some reining in.

wait a minute...you say in your opening...

I believe the idea of personifying our subconscious is the next step in human evolution.

...which I took as endorsement of a divided consciousness (and havin' an advisin' daemon in your head)

now you seem to wanna diminish the possibility of such an advisor

[Advocate]

It's interesting how nobody has picked up on the Genius part, but anyway,

There's also the matter of adding additional Tulpa, a-la that emotion movie or whatever. Clearly this bears no comparison to anything supposed as an answer to pre-conscious anthropology.

[henry quirk]

It's interesting how nobody has picked up on the Genius part, but anyway,

There's also the matter of adding additional Tulpa, a-la that emotion movie or whatever. Clearly this bears no comparison to anything supposed as an answer to pre-conscious anthropology.

interesting you didn't pick up on daemon

and again: divided consciousness is divided consciousness...doesn't matter if it's deified or not

you seem to be sayin' havin' a daemon is your head is a good thing: I wanna know why

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481691 time=1606410586 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481689 time=1606407839 user_id=15238]
It's interesting how nobody has picked up on the Genius part, but anyway,

There's also the matter of adding additional Tulpa, a-la that emotion movie or whatever. Clearly this bears no comparison to anything supposed as an answer to pre-conscious anthropology.
[/quote]

interesting you didn't pick up on [i]daemon[/i]

and again: divided consciousness is divided consciousness...doesn't matter if it's deified or not

you seem to be sayin' havin' a daemon is your head is a good thing: I wanna know why
[/quote]

It's the reins thing. It's helpful to have a mechanism by which to influence your subconscious more directly. Giving it specific form makes that easier.

[henry quirk]

It's interesting how nobody has picked up on the Genius part, but anyway,

There's also the matter of adding additional Tulpa, a-la that emotion movie or whatever. Clearly this bears no comparison to anything supposed as an answer to pre-conscious anthropology.

interesting you didn't pick up on daemon

and again: divided consciousness is divided consciousness...doesn't matter if it's deified or not

you seem to be sayin' havin' a daemon is your head is a good thing: I wanna know why

It's the reins thing. It's helpful to have a mechanism by which to influence your subconscious more directly. Giving it specific form makes that easier.

I was confused, then: you wanna suppress the subconscious, not separate it out and give it a new role

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481698 time=1606413266 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481696 time=1606412774 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481691 time=1606410586 user_id=472]


interesting you didn't pick up on [i]daemon[/i]

and again: divided consciousness is divided consciousness...doesn't matter if it's deified or not

you seem to be sayin' havin' a daemon is your head is a good thing: I wanna know why
[/quote]

It's the reins thing. It's helpful to have a mechanism by which to influence your subconscious more directly. Giving it specific form makes that easier.
[/quote]

I was confused, then: you wanna suppress the subconscious, not separate it out and give it a new role
[/quote]

Both? The subconscious readily gives up control to whatever we're paying attention to. What we can do is train it when we are paying attention to do what we want when we aren't. To be able to understand it as an explicit entity can help us recognize it's foibles and direct our attention in relation to the various acts each of "us' tend to perform, etc. Anyhow, that's the way¹ i see it.

[henry quirk]

It's the reins thing. It's helpful to have a mechanism by which to influence your subconscious more directly. Giving it specific form makes that easier.

I was confused, then: you wanna suppress the subconscious, not separate it out and give it a new role

Both? The subconscious readily gives up control to whatever we're paying attention to. What we can do is train it when we are paying attention to do what we want when we aren't. To be able to understand it as an explicit entity can help us recognize it's foibles and direct our attention in relation to the various acts each of "us' tend to perform, etc. Anyhow, that's the way¹ i see it.

so, and correct me if I'm goin' off in the wrong direction, you wanna codify the subconscious so that the conscious can control it instead of bein' controlled by it, yeah?

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481729 time=1606435915 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481705 time=1606417412 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481698 time=1606413266 user_id=472]


I was confused, then: you wanna suppress the subconscious, not separate it out and give it a new role
[/quote]

Both? The subconscious readily gives up control to whatever we're paying attention to. What we can do is train it when we are paying attention to do what we want when we aren't. To be able to understand it as an explicit entity can help us recognize it's foibles and direct our attention in relation to the various acts each of "us' tend to perform, etc. Anyhow, that's the way¹ i see it.
[/quote]

so, and correct me if I'm goin' off in the wrong direction, you wanna codify the subconscious so that the conscious can control it instead of bein' controlled by it, yeah?
[/quote]

Well, yes, except for the bit about how we have no free will and control is an illusion and we're just the rider on the elephant and all that. But to the extent we Feel like we can control our subconscious, that's the way to do it, and apparently doing so, by whatever method, is the primary way to have a better life, all else being equal. CBT, DBT, etc. all rely upon that fixation of attention on what matters in lieu of letting our subconscious do it for us.