The Genius of The Tulpa

[henry quirk]

Both? The subconscious readily gives up control to whatever we're paying attention to. What we can do is train it when we are paying attention to do what we want when we aren't. To be able to understand it as an explicit entity can help us recognize it's foibles and direct our attention in relation to the various acts each of "us' tend to perform, etc. Anyhow, that's the way¹ i see it.

so, and correct me if I'm goin' off in the wrong direction, you wanna codify the subconscious so that the conscious can control it instead of bein' controlled by it, yeah?

Well, yes, except for the bit about how we have no free will and control is an illusion and we're just the rider on the elephant and all that. But to the extent we Feel like we can control our subconscious, that's the way to do it, and apparently doing so, by whatever method, is the primary way to have a better life, all else being equal. CBT, DBT, etc. all rely upon that fixation of attention on what matters in lieu of letting our subconscious do it for us.

a lotta transhumanist science fiction incorporates the idea that man (or whatever man has turned himself into) has installed various technologies into the brain, includin' sumthin' along the lines of what you're suggestin'...I've seen such tech-harnessed subconsciousness called a muse or a daemon

me, bein' a primitive baseline kinda guy (who is a free will believer), I'll be havin' none of that myself...me, I'll stick with the factory equipment & settings

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481740 time=1606438389 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481738 time=1606437425 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481729 time=1606435915 user_id=472]


so, and correct me if I'm goin' off in the wrong direction, you wanna codify the subconscious so that the conscious can control it instead of bein' controlled by it, yeah?
[/quote]

Well, yes, except for the bit about how we have no free will and control is an illusion and we're just the rider on the elephant and all that. But to the extent we Feel like we can control our subconscious, that's the way to do it, and apparently doing so, by whatever method, is the primary way to have a better life, all else being equal. CBT, DBT, etc. all rely upon that fixation of attention on what matters in lieu of letting our subconscious do it for us.
[/quote]

a lotta transhumanist science fiction incorporates the idea that man (or whatever man has turned himself into) has installed various technologies into the brain, includin' sumthin' along the lines of what you're suggestin'...I've seen such tech-harnessed subconsciousness called a muse or a daemon

me, bein' a primitive baseline kinda guy (who is a free will believer), I'll be havin' none of that myself...me, I'll stick with the factory equipment & settings
[/quote]

What will you do when transhumanism takes over and if you don't upgrade yourself you'll be left in squalor?

[henry quirk]

Well, yes, except for the bit about how we have no free will and control is an illusion and we're just the rider on the elephant and all that. But to the extent we Feel like we can control our subconscious, that's the way to do it, and apparently doing so, by whatever method, is the primary way to have a better life, all else being equal. CBT, DBT, etc. all rely upon that fixation of attention on what matters in lieu of letting our subconscious do it for us.

a lotta transhumanist science fiction incorporates the idea that man (or whatever man has turned himself into) has installed various technologies into the brain, includin' sumthin' along the lines of what you're suggestin'...I've seen such tech-harnessed subconsciousness called a muse or a daemon

me, bein' a primitive baseline kinda guy (who is a free will believer), I'll be havin' none of that myself...me, I'll stick with the factory equipment & settings

What will you do when transhumanism takes over and if you don't upgrade yourself you'll be left in squalor?

in the unlikely event such a thing comes to pass in my lifetime: I shall retreat to the desert, live in an elevated hut, and subsist on lizards and scorpions

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481744 time=1606440907 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=481741 time=1606438633 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=481740 time=1606438389 user_id=472]


a lotta transhumanist science fiction incorporates the idea that man (or whatever man has turned himself into) has installed various technologies into the brain, includin' sumthin' along the lines of what you're suggestin'...I've seen such tech-harnessed subconsciousness called a muse or a daemon

me, bein' a primitive baseline kinda guy (who is a free will believer), I'll be havin' none of that myself...me, I'll stick with the factory equipment & settings
[/quote]

What will you do when transhumanism takes over and if you don't upgrade yourself you'll be left in squalor?
[/quote]

in the unlikely event such a thing comes to pass in my lifetime: I shall retreat to the desert, live in an elevated hut, and subsist on lizards and scorpions
[/quote]

Will you drive this? [img]http://abload.de/img/madmaxfuryroadvehiclebib6j.jpg[/img] Tell me you'll drive this!

[henry quirk]

What will you do when transhumanism takes over and if you don't upgrade yourself you'll be left in squalor?

in the unlikely event such a thing comes to pass in my lifetime: I shall retreat to the desert, live in an elevated hut, and subsist on lizards and scorpions

Will you drive this? Tell me you'll drive this!

damn straight! if I can find guzzolene...

[Dimebag]

Sounds a lot like mindfulness. Bringing the subconscious into the conscious.

[Dimebag]

Both? The subconscious readily gives up control to whatever we're paying attention to. What we can do is train it when we are paying attention to do what we want when we aren't. To be able to understand it as an explicit entity can help us recognize it's foibles and direct our attention in relation to the various acts each of "us' tend to perform, etc. Anyhow, that's the way¹ i see it.

so, and correct me if I'm goin' off in the wrong direction, you wanna codify the subconscious so that the conscious can control it instead of bein' controlled by it, yeah?

Well, yes, except for the bit about how we have no free will and control is an illusion and we're just the rider on the elephant and all that. But to the extent we Feel like we can control our subconscious, that's the way to do it, and apparently doing so, by whatever method, is the primary way to have a better life, all else being equal. CBT, DBT, etc. all rely upon that fixation of attention on what matters in lieu of letting our subconscious do it for us.

We may not have free will in the classical sense, but, there is a way in which consciously determined actions differ from lesser drives. I think that might be what you are referring to? The control over the lower drives, so as to be driven towards higher goals?

Now the question is, how does one do this, other than becoming an observer of their own internal drives? The problem then arises, the observer can only observe. If the observer attempts to control, it allows the daemon in the back door as a puppet.

[Dimebag]

When you drive and take a drink, you're literally multi-tasking. Isn't this at least the beginnings of a dual consciousness? Consciousness begins as a theory of mind, and Self is theory of mind turned inward. I believe the idea of personifying our subconscious is the next step in human evolution.

Getting back to this post, I have been wondering lately, is it possible to pay attention to two different locations in the same sensory modality, for example, vision? Most of the time, we are focusing on one thing within our vision, in the central area of our visual focus. It’s possible to also indirectly focus on the peripheral areas of our vision, though it is much lower resolution, and you need to gain control of the internally directed attentional focus.

I’ll give an example. I am driving along, approaching a roundabout. In my part of the hemisphere, we drive on the left hand side, and as you approach a round about, you look to the right for oncoming traffic. When I am following a car approaching a roundabout, I have to watch the car in front, so as to avoid hitting it if it stops. But, I also have to look to the right if the traffic is flowing fast enough to not come to a complete stop. What I have learned to do, after many thousands of hours of driving, is to simultaneously look to the right as I approach the roundabout, when following a car, and keep the car in front in my wandering internal attentional focus, while vacantly staring to the right and passively allowing the visual information of approaching oncoming traffic to determine if I stop or go. So I have two sources of visual information feeding control of the brake pedal, the peripheral vision of the car in front, ensuring if it stops, I stop, and the central focal vision, ensuring I stop if the coast isn’t clear.

This isn’t exactly divided attention, but more hacking the visual system to allow two visual perceptual areas to feed behaviour. It results in what seems like divided attention, but is actually a combination of automated behaviour with novel stimulus attention. The vacant watching of oncoming traffic is the automatic driving behaviour, and the peripheral watching of the car in front is the novel attention.

I think the reason this is possible is, the two halves of our vision are being sent to different visual hemispheres, and the right hand vision is sent to the left visual hemisphere, responsible for automatic or learned behaviour, the left hand visual field is sent to the right side of the cortex responsible for novelty. I’m not sure if vision is the only sensory modality which has this ability due to its division.