consciousness sandbox

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Skepdick
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:50 pm That's epistemology.
Distinction without a difference.

Self-knowledge is metaphysics and epistemology.
Advocate
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=473646 time=1601395702 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=473645 time=1601394618 user_id=15238]
That's epistemology.
[/quote]
Distinction without a difference.

Self-knowledge is metaphysics and epistemology.
[/quote]

I don't see any reference to the hard problem of consciousness there. You're in the wrong thread.
Skepdick
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:13 pm
Skepdick wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:08 pm
Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:50 pm That's epistemology.
Distinction without a difference.

Self-knowledge is metaphysics and epistemology.
I don't see any reference to the hard problem of consciousness there. You're in the wrong thread.
Do I need to spell it for you?

The "hard problem" is exactly the same problem as "What am I?"
The even harder question is "How do I know that I am conscious?"

That's an epistemic question.
Advocate
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Advocate »

>Do I need to spell it for you?

Well, that is kinda the whole point of the whole post.

>The "hard problem" is exactly the same problem as "What am I?"
>The even harder question is "Am I conscious?"

You are the continuity of your experience. That's no version of the hard problem i think anyone would recognise as such. Yes, you're conscious. I have epistemological warrant for that fact because you act in similar ways as i do, guided by my own consciousness and a difference that makes no difference is no difference, epistemically or metaphysically.
Last edited by Advocate on Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Skepdick
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:29 pm You are the continuity of your experience.

What is "experience"?
How do you know that you are experiencing?
Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:29 pm That's no version of the hard problem i think anyone else would accept as such.
It's exactly the same question?!?!?

What is consciousness?
What is experience?

How do I know that I am conscious?
How do I know that I am expriencing?

They are all "woo woo" words!

To quote the op...
There is no question about experience that cannot be understood as semantic ( what do we use the word to refer to? ) or empirical ( neuroscience or psychology can measure it ). Prove me wrong.
Ooops!
Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:29 pm Yes, you're conscious. I have epistemological warrant for that fact because you act in similar ways as i do, guided by my own consciousness and a difference that makes no difference is no difference *applies to robots and octopii as well.
You have epistemic warrant for the fact that I act in the same way that you do.

That is not warrant that YOU are conscious.

So...how do you know that you are conscious?
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=473650 time=1601397130 user_id=17350]
So...how do you know that you are conscious?
[/quote]

It's because i understand how words work. They refer to things. Whatever this is, it's what the word refers to. Checkmate. GTFO.
Skepdick
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:41 pm It's because i understand how words work. They refer to things. Whatever this is, it's what the word refers to. Checkmate. GTFO.
What does the word "understand" refer to?
What does the word "consciousness" refer to?
What does the word "experience" refer to?
What does the word "I" refer to?

Own goal. Try again.
Advocate
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=473652 time=1601397830 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=473651 time=1601397708 user_id=15238]
It's because i understand how words work. They refer to things. Whatever this is, it's what the word refers to. Checkmate. GTFO.
[/quote]
What does the word "understand" refer to?
What does the word "consciousness" refer to?
What does the word "experience" refer to?
What does the word "I" refer to?

Own goal. Try again.
[/quote]

Innate knowledge
x
synonymous with consciousness, awareness, ego, self, i, etc.
x
commonsense
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by commonsense »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:15 pm
Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:13 pm
Skepdick wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:08 pm
Distinction without a difference.

Self-knowledge is metaphysics and epistemology.
I don't see any reference to the hard problem of consciousness there. You're in the wrong thread.
Do I need to spell it for you?

The "hard problem" is exactly the same problem as "What am I?"
The even harder question is "How do I know that I am conscious?"

That's an epistemic question.
Perhaps I should not, but I actually assume that my experience, although I cannot describe it, is consciousness.

Although that’s what is, I want to go beyond that by actually defining that experience, that consciousness.
Skepdick
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:38 pm Innate knowledge
x
synonymous with consciousness, awareness, ego, self, i, etc.
x
That's unpossible. You have a grammatical problem.

1. "consciousness" is an adjective. All the other ones are nouns.
2. If you were conscious (e.g you had innate knowledge) then you would've told me what you are.

So I shall ask again..

What are you?
Advocate
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=473662 time=1601402125 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=473658 time=1601401119 user_id=15238]
Innate knowledge
x
synonymous with consciousness, awareness, ego, self, i, etc.
x
[/quote]
That's unpossible. You have a grammatical problem.

1. "consciousness" is an adjective. All the other ones are nouns.
2. If you were conscious (e.g you had innate knowledge) then you would've told me what you are.

So I shall ask again..

What are you?
[/quote]

I've been answering your questions for a while now, coherently, cohesively, all across the philosophical spectrum.. maybe it's time you become an acolyte and accept the truth that's right in front of your face?
commonsense
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by commonsense »

Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:41 pm
Skepdick wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:32 pm So...how do you know that you are conscious?
It's because i understand how words work. They refer to things. Whatever this is, it's what the word refers to. Checkmate. GTFO.
I agree. Whatever it is, I call it consciousness and I recognize it (whenever I am conscious of it).
commonsense
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by commonsense »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:55 pm
Advocate wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:38 pm Innate knowledge
x
synonymous with consciousness, awareness, ego, self, i, etc.
x
That's unpossible. You have a grammatical problem.

1. "consciousness" is an adjective. All the other ones are nouns.
2. If you were conscious (e.g you had innate knowledge) then you would've told me what you are.

So I shall ask again..

What are you?
1. Grammar cops tell me the first is a verb and the next 3 are nouns.

2. If A had innate knowledge he might know how to answer the question, but it doesn’t logically follow that A would tell you what he knows.
Skepdick
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by Skepdick »

commonsense wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:25 pm 2. If A had innate knowledge he might know how to answer the question, but it doesn’t logically follow that A would tell you what he knows.
I am not sure what logic has to do with it.

He can choose to tell, or choose not to tell.

And you should pay close attention to his convenient discarding of the exact same set of questions pertaining to the referent of "experience".
commonsense
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Re: consciousness sandbox

Post by commonsense »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:32 pm
commonsense wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:25 pm 2. If A had innate knowledge he might know how to answer the question, but it doesn’t logically follow that A would tell you what he knows.
I am not sure what logic has to do with it.

He can choose to tell, or choose not to tell.

And you should pay close attention to his convenient discarding of the exact same set of questions pertaining to the referent of "experience".
OK,OK. You raise good points with #2. Rather than “logically follow” I should have said, like you, that he has choices and add that he wouldn’t of necessity have to choose to tell. (To me, logic dictates what is necessary. I may be wrong, but in any case that’s what lead me to bring up logic.)
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