The observer cannot be observed

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dimebag
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dimebag »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:13 am You are what observes, not what is being observed.

What is observing cannot be observed because nothing is observing appearing as something.

No some thing has ever been observed, all things are empty concepts.

.
It's no end of amusement to me how many times poster will start with something that is clearly bollocks.
What is observing can be and often is observed.
What is observing? And what are you?
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henry quirk
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

I think it's an innate attribute of the human experience to feel this separation anxiety

that's not my experience at all

I've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:46 pm I think it's an innate attribute of the human experience to feel this separation anxiety

that's not my experience at all

I've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst
But how would you know you've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst if this feeling has never been your experience?
The problem with this kind of claim is that you cannot know what you have not had, unless you already knew what it was that you've not had. In other words, you must have already had the experiences of such to be able to confidently claim the knowledge of never having them.

Surely the very knowledge of said experience would not have even entered your mind unless you believe such an experience actually exists. See how knowledge can only ever point to the illusory nature of it's reality, in that there is no knowledge of the EXPERIENCER of knowledge.

To know you haven't experienced an experience, you would have to experience what you claim you haven't experienced to know for certain, and that is all part of the illusion of knowledge. Including this...


The fact that you can already claim quite confidently that you've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst is proof that this condition is already KNOWN to exist, or the idea wouldn't even arise in you.

And the reason why it is already known is because it has been recorded as informational data as a direct experience.

Also Henry, the separation that is being talked about here is used as a Metaphor for the dream of SEPARATION, aka duality. In reality, all is ONE SEAMLESS NONDUAL REALITY.

Within the dream of separation, aka duality, separation is a painful experience. A child or a baby who is temporally separated from it's parents dependancy, that is vital for it's own survival will feel this sensation for sure, and is why you know it.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

The painful separation Metaphor is also known in the Jesus Christ story when Jesus was hanging on the cross. In his despair he cried out to his Father, why have you forsaken me.

But upon realisation just before he passed away, it suddenly dawned on him that he was the one aka the child of his Father who had to die before the illusory separation could dissolve and be one with his Father again.
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henry quirk
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

But how would you know you've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst if this feeling has never been your experience?

obviously, if I never feel anxiety or fear when alone, if I don't pine for the company of others, if the absence of others brings no apprehension: I don't have separation anxiety


The fact that you can already claim quite confidently that you've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst is proof that this condition is already KNOWN to exist, or the idea wouldn't even arise in you.

er, it didn't arise in me...you brought it up, up-thread...separation anxiety, existential angst (really two names fot the same damn thing) exists, I believe, in neurotics only...it's a neurosis, a disorder, not a common feature
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henry quirk
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:48 pm The painful separation Metaphor is also known in the Jesus Christ story when Jesus was hanging on the cross. In his despair he cried out to his Father, why have you forsaken me.

But upon realisation just before he passed away, it suddenly dawned on him that he was the one aka the child of his Father who had to die before the illusory separation could dissolve and be one with his Father again.
yeah, I'm not a christian...my religion has no christ-figure or sacrifice motif or separation-as-unatural theme
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:52 pm But how would you know you've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst if this feeling has never been your experience?

obviously, if I never feel anxiety or fear when alone, if I don't pine for the company of others, if the absence of others brings no apprehension: I don't have separation anxiety

Welcome in ..back to the discussion.
Henry, you're missing the point of the discussion, in reality there are no others to pine for. Except in the dream of separation...ok?

The fact that you can already claim quite confidently that you've never suffered from separation anxiety or existential angst is proof that this condition is already KNOWN to exist, or the idea wouldn't even arise in you.
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:52 pmer, it didn't arise in me...you brought it up, up-thread...separation anxiety, existential angst (really two names fot the same damn thing) exists, I believe, in neurotics only...it's a neurosis, a disorder, not a common feature
Yes, the idea was brought up in the words as you read them, that data then informed you, and then you recognised your own data to then be able to explain it as a disorder. So in essence it is true that it is a disorder because nowhere in actual reality does separation exist. That's what is being discussed here ok?

.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:54 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:48 pm The painful separation Metaphor is also known in the Jesus Christ story when Jesus was hanging on the cross. In his despair he cried out to his Father, why have you forsaken me.

But upon realisation just before he passed away, it suddenly dawned on him that he was the one aka the child of his Father who had to die before the illusory separation could dissolve and be one with his Father again.
yeah, I'm not a christian...my religion has no christ-figure or sacrifice motif or separation-as-unatural theme
And no one is or has a neurosis disorder..these ideas are all just thoughts, converted into an experiencial narrative within the energy expressing itself as the human story arising herenow in no one, for no one, and by no one.

There is no such thing as no one. No one simply means ONE
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:54 pm
yeah, I'm not a christian...my religion has no christ-figure or sacrifice motif or separation-as-unatural theme
Henry, there is no such thing as a Christian, it's just a fabled character arising within the believing brain/mind body mechanism. In the same context there is no real mouse inside the character known as Micky Mouse.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:52 pm
obviously, if I never feel anxiety or fear when alone
Henry has ever felt the sensations of anxiety or fear. These concepts, including the name Henry are only ever known to this all one all alone Consciousness via direct experience.



.
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Sculptor
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Sculptor »

Dimebag wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:29 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:13 am You are what observes, not what is being observed.

What is observing cannot be observed because nothing is observing appearing as something.

No some thing has ever been observed, all things are empty concepts.

.
It's no end of amusement to me how many times poster will start with something that is clearly bollocks.
What is observing can be and often is observed.
What is observing? And what are you?
My dog is looking right at me since it will soon be her dinner time and she knows when that is. I am the guy that feeds her.
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henry quirk
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

ok?

no, not okay

I'm tried to be nice about all this (and I got nuthin' but lecture for my trouble), so, let me be plain...

you're wrong..flat out, plain as the very real, very crooked, nose on my lopsided face; wrong on just about everything in this thread...your assessments of the world, reality, human beings: wrong

I've tried to counter, have countered, but you dismiss it and keep on keepin' on with the mumbo jumbo

this isn't a conversation or a debate: it's you recruiting, sumthin' I got no time for or interest in

thanks for nuthin', DAM
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:09 pm
thanks for nuthin', DAM
You're welcome Henry.

And just remember, any time your in for another one to one encounter, do pop in, I am open all hours of eternity. :D
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henry quirk
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:28 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:09 pm
thanks for nuthin', DAM
You're welcome Henry.

And just remember, any time your in for another one to one encounter, do pop in, I am open all hours of eternity. :D
get bent, guy
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Dontaskme
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Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
It's no end of amusement to me how many times poster will start with something that is clearly bollocks.
What is observing can be and often is observed.
It's already been stated here that the observer is the observed.

The point being made though, is that that which is observed cannot observe, therefore any thing observed cannot be the observer....comprende ?
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