The observer cannot be observed

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Dontaskme
Posts: 9539
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:43 pm
and another one who thinks he knows how other folks' heads work

Image


Always be yourself, the real fictional character! :lol:
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10129
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:03 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:57 pm

me: I'm just telln' you and all the others like you -- again -- mebbe your head(s) work like that but mine doesn't
More projection.

Don't tell others that their heads don't work like yours, it's preaching.
nope

when you, and others, describe your heads a certain way, and I say, that's not how my head works, that's an assertion on my part

when you, and others, tell me how my head works, that's preachin'
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10129
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:19 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:57 pm
I have no clue how your head works and I never said I did (goin' by your descriptions, though, it seems to be a nightmare)

Yeah, I agree, it really is a nighmare trying to make headways...mebbe don't bother even trying might help you.

Image
don't need any...thanks anyway
Dimebag
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:12 am

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dimebag »

In a sense Henry you are correct, that which you believe you conceive.

You mind makes it real.

Your experience of reality IS your reality.

So for you, you experience being a locus of experience, a point of view, an agent of causation.

That can ALL exist WITHIN the illusion. Just as in a story, the characters are never aware they are IN the story, in the same sense, within the story that is your life and experience, you are not and never could be aware of being in a story or dream.

When you are in a dream, you don’t know you are in the dream. When you realise you are in a dream, it loses its impact or grip on you and your reactions.

In the matrix, when neo begins in the matrix, he doesn’t question who he is, nor the reality of the world. He thinks he is Thomas Anderson and has been toiling all his life. When he is woken up, he realises that whole life in the matrix was like a dream, including who he thought he was.

It’s a bit like this. And once you realise you have been living in a dream world, to go back in, no matter how good the illusion may seem, is still known to be illusion.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9539
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

Dimebag wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:00 am In a sense Henry you are correct, that which you believe you conceive.

You mind makes it real.
I've already agreed with Henry's explanatory conception of the workings that is his own head understanding on another thread. so I'm confused as to why he gets all offended when he pops into my thread of ideas, moaning that others are preaching to him. Even though he's already explained to me how he sees things, which I've already given a thumbs up to. But that wasn't enough apparently, oh well, the mind does feel threatened when memory starts to fade I suppose.

Henry, nothing I say on this forum is about you personally ok. This ''personal thingy'' is all inside your head.

.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9539
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:38 am
don't need any...thanks anyway
Then you needent be popping your nose in on my business then, since you've got it all figured anyway.

Or do you think mebbe there are two heads in your dick head (sorry bad joke!! :wink: ) your fine, I'm fine ok...lets call the whole thing off for now, I'm not always going to be in my gaming mood. :P
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10129
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

In the matrix, when neo begins in the matrix, he doesn’t question who he is, nor the reality of the world. He thinks he is Thomas Anderson and has been toiling all his life. When he is woken up, he realises that whole life in the matrix was like a dream, including who he thought he was.

but that's not how it played out

neo was always neo, even when he thought the simulation was the real world, even when he went by thomas

discoverin' the truth of things didn't change him, it freed him...his chains and blindfold were removed but he remained who he always was

what you folks suggest is radically different: he was real and imprisoned in an illusion; you say he was the illusion imprisoned in an illusion

-----

Then you needent be popping your nose in on my business

I thought this was an open thread...my mistake
SteveKlinko
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dimebag wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:00 am In a sense Henry you are correct, that which you believe you conceive.

You mind makes it real.

Your experience of reality IS your reality.

So for you, you experience being a locus of experience, a point of view, an agent of causation.

That can ALL exist WITHIN the illusion. Just as in a story, the characters are never aware they are IN the story, in the same sense, within the story that is your life and experience, you are not and never could be aware of being in a story or dream.

When you are in a dream, you don’t know you are in the dream. When you realise you are in a dream, it loses its impact or grip on you and your reactions.

In the matrix, when neo begins in the matrix, he doesn’t question who he is, nor the reality of the world. He thinks he is Thomas Anderson and has been toiling all his life. When he is woken up, he realises that whole life in the matrix was like a dream, including who he thought he was.

It’s a bit like this. And once you realise you have been living in a dream world, to go back in, no matter how good the illusion may seem, is still known to be illusion.
If everything is an Illusion then who or what is having the Illusion. A concept of Illusion is nothing until a Conscious Mind has it. Also if my Conscious Mind is having the Illusion and everything is Illusion then Dimebag et. al. are just Illusions and don't really exist. I am everything. Maybe I am God!
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10129
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:00 pm
Dimebag wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:00 am In a sense Henry you are correct, that which you believe you conceive.

You mind makes it real.

Your experience of reality IS your reality.

So for you, you experience being a locus of experience, a point of view, an agent of causation.

That can ALL exist WITHIN the illusion. Just as in a story, the characters are never aware they are IN the story, in the same sense, within the story that is your life and experience, you are not and never could be aware of being in a story or dream.

When you are in a dream, you don’t know you are in the dream. When you realise you are in a dream, it loses its impact or grip on you and your reactions.

In the matrix, when neo begins in the matrix, he doesn’t question who he is, nor the reality of the world. He thinks he is Thomas Anderson and has been toiling all his life. When he is woken up, he realises that whole life in the matrix was like a dream, including who he thought he was.

It’s a bit like this. And once you realise you have been living in a dream world, to go back in, no matter how good the illusion may seem, is still known to be illusion.
If everything is an Illusion then who or what is having the Illusion. A concept of Illusion is nothing until a Conscious Mind has it. Also if my Conscious Mind is having the Illusion and everything is Illusion then Dimebag et. al. are just Illusions and don't really exist. I am everything. Maybe I am God!
I called dibs!
SteveKlinko
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by SteveKlinko »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:12 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:00 pm
Dimebag wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:00 am In a sense Henry you are correct, that which you believe you conceive.

You mind makes it real.

Your experience of reality IS your reality.

So for you, you experience being a locus of experience, a point of view, an agent of causation.

That can ALL exist WITHIN the illusion. Just as in a story, the characters are never aware they are IN the story, in the same sense, within the story that is your life and experience, you are not and never could be aware of being in a story or dream.

When you are in a dream, you don’t know you are in the dream. When you realise you are in a dream, it loses its impact or grip on you and your reactions.

In the matrix, when neo begins in the matrix, he doesn’t question who he is, nor the reality of the world. He thinks he is Thomas Anderson and has been toiling all his life. When he is woken up, he realises that whole life in the matrix was like a dream, including who he thought he was.

It’s a bit like this. And once you realise you have been living in a dream world, to go back in, no matter how good the illusion may seem, is still known to be illusion.
If everything is an Illusion then who or what is having the Illusion. A concept of Illusion is nothing until a Conscious Mind has it. Also if my Conscious Mind is having the Illusion and everything is Illusion then Dimebag et. al. are just Illusions and don't really exist. I am everything. Maybe I am God!
I called dibs!
ok, you can have the God thing. Too much responsibility for me.
Dimebag
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:12 am

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dimebag »

SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:00 pm
Dimebag wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:00 am In a sense Henry you are correct, that which you believe you conceive.

You mind makes it real.

Your experience of reality IS your reality.

So for you, you experience being a locus of experience, a point of view, an agent of causation.

That can ALL exist WITHIN the illusion. Just as in a story, the characters are never aware they are IN the story, in the same sense, within the story that is your life and experience, you are not and never could be aware of being in a story or dream.

When you are in a dream, you don’t know you are in the dream. When you realise you are in a dream, it loses its impact or grip on you and your reactions.

In the matrix, when neo begins in the matrix, he doesn’t question who he is, nor the reality of the world. He thinks he is Thomas Anderson and has been toiling all his life. When he is woken up, he realises that whole life in the matrix was like a dream, including who he thought he was.

It’s a bit like this. And once you realise you have been living in a dream world, to go back in, no matter how good the illusion may seem, is still known to be illusion.
If everything is an Illusion then who or what is having the Illusion. A concept of Illusion is nothing until a Conscious Mind has it. Also if my Conscious Mind is having the Illusion and everything is Illusion then Dimebag et. al. are just Illusions and don't really exist. I am everything. Maybe I am God!
You started to get it, but then the old ego kicked in again.

Consciousness exists, but it’s impersonal. The “you” you take yourself to be is a construct. It is real in a sense that it is there, but it’s like a play upon a screen, and you, the screen, have identified yourself with this play, with this actor.

When you can realise this, the ego doesn’t magically vanish, but you then have an ability to be “outside” it somehow, and it’s tendencies to go on long abusive rants, to take things personally, to react with anger without pause. These reactions all happen because awareness is fully identified and essentially gives the ego full control of the organism.

If you consider that you could be awareness, when you drill down, that means the contents of awareness is a play within you.

You could say you are everything, but then, the ego will take that and make grandiose claims allowing delusion to creep in. You could say, the concept of a you, a discreet subject to which things happen to, is wrong. Things happen on this screen of awareness, or this space, if you like. There are still conscious experiences happening, just not to anyone, it’s like a movie theatre without anyone watching.

To say you are God, some do say that, but don’t think just because you are the ground of this experience, that you created all the causes and conditions which support it. An objective world still exists, even if it can never be known, only through this subjective inner world. It’s a fine line to walk, between narcissism and insanity.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10129
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:45 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:12 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:00 pm

If everything is an Illusion then who or what is having the Illusion. A concept of Illusion is nothing until a Conscious Mind has it. Also if my Conscious Mind is having the Illusion and everything is Illusion then Dimebag et. al. are just Illusions and don't really exist. I am everything. Maybe I am God!
I called dibs!
ok, you can have the God thing. Too much responsibility for me.
hot damn! hold on to your ass, cuz it's fire & brimstone time!
SteveKlinko
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by SteveKlinko »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:56 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:45 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:12 pm

I called dibs!
ok, you can have the God thing. Too much responsibility for me.
hot damn! hold on to your ass, cuz it's fire & brimstone time!
Hahhhhhhh!
Dontaskme
Posts: 9539
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by Dontaskme »

Then you needent be popping your nose in on my business
henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:06 pmI thought this was an open thread...my mistake
It is an open thread, it's open for business. But since I am the author of this thread, it is my business to direct it the way I think it should go.

If you want to discuss the fact that the ( observer cannot be observed )then you are more than welcome to do so.

But if you, like you've already mentioned to me, that you already ''know yourself'' the way you personally see it, then I just question the reason or motive for your appearance here on my thread, especially if you are just going to state that you believe something else contrary to the OP

Also, to believe something else is you're prerogative, just as it is my prerogative to tell you what I believe, so to then just call out my ideas as being ''preachy'' and then make loose accusations that I am a ''wrong headed'' person, then excuse me for calling you out. I think your a wrong headed person too, so hows that.

When I'm using the words ( I or You) I'm referring to the (Verb Consciousness) that is the same phenomena in every living sentient being. I'm not referring to a guy named Henry who seems to take everything I say personally. This is a Nondual thread, the I and the You are the same ONE in my belief ok?

So please make up your mind as to what you are doing on this thread...then perhaps we can move forward.

.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10129
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: The observer cannot be observed

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:05 pm Then you needent be popping your nose in on my business
henry quirk wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:06 pmI thought this was an open thread...my mistake
It is an open thread, it's open for business. But since I am the author of this thread, it is my business to direct it the way I think it should go.

If you want to discuss the fact that the ( observer cannot be observed )then you are more than welcome to do so.

But if you, like you've already mentioned to me, that you already ''know yourself'' the way you personally see it, then I just question the reason or motive for your appearance here on my thread, especially if you are just going to state that you believe something else contrary to the OP

Also, to believe something else is you're prerogative, just as it is my prerogative to tell you what I believe, so to then just call out my ideas as being ''preachy'' and then make loose accusations that I am a ''wrong headed'' person, then excuse me for calling you out. I think your a wrong headed person too, so hows that.

When I'm using the words ( I or You) I'm referring to the (Verb Consciousness) that is the same phenomena in every living sentient being. I'm not referring to a guy named Henry who seems to take everything I say personally. This is a Nondual thread, the I and the You are the same ONE in my belief ok?

So please make up your mind as to what you are doing on this thread...then perhaps we can move forward.

.
hey, I'm out...go bug someone else, you self-described illusion
Post Reply