Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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ExistentialCrisis227
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:25 am

Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Post by ExistentialCrisis227 »

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1

I read the above comic, something which turned out to be a mistake because I have just enough understanding of physics, and philosophy to follow its line of reasoning, but not anywhere near enough to say if the scenario that presents for sleep, and survival of the self through the unconscious part of it is true, or just a thought experiment, and theory.

After having read it, I have some very rough nights, with the concept that if I fall asleep I die making it hard to fall asleep.

I understand that the creator of the comic is not arguing that falling asleep or losing ones stream of consciousness, but as I cannot imagine surviving the transporter, I suddenly find myself unsure if I can survive periods of unconsciousness.

Is unconsciousness during sleep something that a person should realistically fear? Obviously the body itself survives, as do the memories with one waking up -feeling- they are the same self that fell asleep. They will qualitatively be the same, but so too would the person emerging form a transponder. I am interested in if the person that wakes up is not just qualitatively similar, but numerically the same person that falls asleep? The survival of someone like me is irrelevant where this is concerned. My survival is what I am concerned about. As I imagine most other people are too.

On level of intuition, for me survival of both the body, brain, and memories seems important, but I dont know if they actually are.

Cheers! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
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bahman
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Post by bahman »

ExistentialCrisis227 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:32 am http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1

I read the above comic, something which turned out to be a mistake because I have just enough understanding of physics, and philosophy to follow its line of reasoning, but not anywhere near enough to say if the scenario that presents for sleep, and survival of the self through the unconscious part of it is true, or just a thought experiment, and theory.

After having read it, I have some very rough nights, with the concept that if I fall asleep I die making it hard to fall asleep.

I understand that the creator of the comic is not arguing that falling asleep or losing ones stream of consciousness, but as I cannot imagine surviving the transporter, I suddenly find myself unsure if I can survive periods of unconsciousness.

Is unconsciousness during sleep something that a person should realistically fear? Obviously the body itself survives, as do the memories with one waking up -feeling- they are the same self that fell asleep. They will qualitatively be the same, but so too would the person emerging form a transponder. I am interested in if the person that wakes up is not just qualitatively similar, but numerically the same person that falls asleep? The survival of someone like me is irrelevant where this is concerned. My survival is what I am concerned about. As I imagine most other people are too.

On level of intuition, for me survival of both the body, brain, and memories seems important, but I dont know if they actually are.

Cheers! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Mind persist to exist always. The rest is just illusion.
Impenitent
Posts: 2995
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Post by Impenitent »

your self is not the same self as you were before you read this word.

sweet dreams

-Imp
Dimebag
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Post by Dimebag »

Impenitent wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:50 pm your self is not the same self as you were before you read this word.

sweet dreams

-Imp
There really is no one
SteveKlinko
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
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Re: Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Post by SteveKlinko »

ExistentialCrisis227 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:32 am http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1

I read the above comic, something which turned out to be a mistake because I have just enough understanding of physics, and philosophy to follow its line of reasoning, but not anywhere near enough to say if the scenario that presents for sleep, and survival of the self through the unconscious part of it is true, or just a thought experiment, and theory.

After having read it, I have some very rough nights, with the concept that if I fall asleep I die making it hard to fall asleep.

I understand that the creator of the comic is not arguing that falling asleep or losing ones stream of consciousness, but as I cannot imagine surviving the transporter, I suddenly find myself unsure if I can survive periods of unconsciousness.

Is unconsciousness during sleep something that a person should realistically fear? Obviously the body itself survives, as do the memories with one waking up -feeling- they are the same self that fell asleep. They will qualitatively be the same, but so too would the person emerging form a transponder. I am interested in if the person that wakes up is not just qualitatively similar, but numerically the same person that falls asleep? The survival of someone like me is irrelevant where this is concerned. My survival is what I am concerned about. As I imagine most other people are too.

On level of intuition, for me survival of both the body, brain, and memories seems important, but I dont know if they actually are.

Cheers! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Of course your physical body is not destroyed every time you go to sleep, so going to sleep and being teleported are two different things. Star Trek has extensively dealt with the problem of creation of new physical bodies and destruction of old during the Teleportation process. In a Next Generation episode the Enterprise came upon an old Federation ship where they found that Scotty (the Engineer) from the original series was trapped in the Transporter pattern buffer (he trapped himself on purpose to survive some calamity). They were able to release him and rebuild his body from the information in the Pattern Buffer. Supposedly he was trapped in the Pattern Buffer for 80 years. His body would have been in there as just a blueprint for remaking his body. His physical body was destroyed by the Transporter process 80 years ago. Also through many episodes there was one crew member that was particularly afraid of Teleporting just because of the destruction and recreation process. Star Trek has repeatedly dealt with Transporter issues including cases where the original did not get destroyed so two identical people existed with all the ramifications that that would produce. Star Trek, great philosophical vehicle.
PeteJ
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Re: Does the self survive periods of unconscious like deep sleep?

Post by PeteJ »

I'd suggest googling 'tureya'.
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