Continuous experience from a discrete process

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by bahman »

We know that a film is made of frames. This means that our visual sensory system receives a discrete package of information. Our experience is however continuous. I was wondering how such a thing is possible considering the fact that there is no map between a discrete forms of information and continuous experience.
Impenitent
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

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discrete forms don't create as lasting materials as concrete forms...

-Imp
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bahman
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by bahman »

Impenitent wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:38 pm discrete forms don't create as lasting materials as concrete forms...

-Imp
Could you please elaborate?
Impenitent
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

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dis-crete, con-crete... the island...

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Dimebag
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by Dimebag »

In theory our conscious experience could have a much higher “refresh rate” than it does, the lower limit would depend on the difference of the smallest units our sensory organs could detect. But, our conscious experience IS limited by the refresh rate of our brains and sensory organs. Because action potentials within the brain are thought to be the main signalling mechanism for transmission of information, there is a limit to the speed at which sensory transducers can detect and pass on signals about sensory information.

Furthermore, nature would have come to some optimal tuning balance between speed and precision, it seems humans can detect refresh rate differences even in the hundreds of hertz (cycles/second), however this may be because we are detecting differences in the ratios of the frequency of screens refresh rate compared to the refresh rate of our perceptual system.

But at any rate, our brains might “upscale” our perceptual refresh rate by inserting frames in between the most discrete ones similar to the way graphics cards combine two frames together to improve the refresh rate of a video scene.

Truth be told though, neuroscience still doesn’t have a great understanding of how conscious experience is produced in the brain, so if it were discovered tomorrow that those action potentials aren’t the actual way the brain communicates information, and there was a more continuous transmission of say, analogue signal strength, then this could all be flipped on its head.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

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Dimebag wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:04 pm In theory our conscious experience could have a much higher “refresh rate” than it does, the lower limit would depend on the difference of the smallest units our sensory organs could detect. But, our conscious experience IS limited by the refresh rate of our brains and sensory organs. Because action potentials within the brain are thought to be the main signalling mechanism for transmission of information, there is a limit to the speed at which sensory transducers can detect and pass on signals about sensory information.

Furthermore, nature would have come to some optimal tuning balance between speed and precision, it seems humans can detect refresh rate differences even in the hundreds of hertz (cycles/second), however this may be because we are detecting differences in the ratios of the frequency of screens refresh rate compared to the refresh rate of our perceptual system.

But at any rate, our brains might “upscale” our perceptual refresh rate by inserting frames in between the most discrete ones similar to the way graphics cards combine two frames together to improve the refresh rate of a video scene.

Truth be told though, neuroscience still doesn’t have a great understanding of how conscious experience is produced in the brain, so if it were discovered tomorrow that those action potentials aren’t the actual way the brain communicates information, and there was a more continuous transmission of say, analogue signal strength, then this could all be flipped on its head.
I see. So you are saying that the brain interpolates between discrete frames.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by bahman »

bahman wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:21 pm
Dimebag wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:04 pm In theory our conscious experience could have a much higher “refresh rate” than it does, the lower limit would depend on the difference of the smallest units our sensory organs could detect. But, our conscious experience IS limited by the refresh rate of our brains and sensory organs. Because action potentials within the brain are thought to be the main signalling mechanism for transmission of information, there is a limit to the speed at which sensory transducers can detect and pass on signals about sensory information.

Furthermore, nature would have come to some optimal tuning balance between speed and precision, it seems humans can detect refresh rate differences even in the hundreds of hertz (cycles/second), however this may be because we are detecting differences in the ratios of the frequency of screens refresh rate compared to the refresh rate of our perceptual system.

But at any rate, our brains might “upscale” our perceptual refresh rate by inserting frames in between the most discrete ones similar to the way graphics cards combine two frames together to improve the refresh rate of a video scene.

Truth be told though, neuroscience still doesn’t have a great understanding of how conscious experience is produced in the brain, so if it were discovered tomorrow that those action potentials aren’t the actual way the brain communicates information, and there was a more continuous transmission of say, analogue signal strength, then this could all be flipped on its head.
I see. So you are saying that the brain interpolates between discrete frames.
But a discrete to continuous map does not exist.
Skepdick
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by Skepdick »

bahman wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:57 pm But a discrete to continuous map does not exist.
It does. So long as you don't violate the Shannon limit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E ... ng_theorem
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bahman
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by bahman »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:06 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:57 pm But a discrete to continuous map does not exist.
It does. So long as you don't violate the Shannon limit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E ... ng_theorem
Interesting manuscript. Our experience however doesn't repeat so you need all band of frequency.
Skepdick
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Re: Continuous experience from a discrete process

Post by Skepdick »

bahman wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:17 pm Interesting manuscript. Our experience however doesn't repeat so you need all band of frequency.
Sure, your brain has finite processing power. The delta between the available vs acquired information is your "attention" or your "focus" if you so will.

A bit like a radio - you can only "tune in" into one band. If there ever was a good reason to embrace division of labour - this is it.

The business of "understanding reality" requires more brainpower.
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