Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

Post by Dontaskme »

Introduction to Wetiko


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR6PnUmdhDw


Mind trying to improve itself is like applying makeup to a mirror. The mirror has no mind to receive an image of itself, therefore any image is just the mirrrors empty reflection believed to be real. Measurable objective reality exists within the mind. The mind does not exist within the objective reality.

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Dimebag
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Re: Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

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The first half of his video was a beautiful pointer, but then he brought in the concept of wetiko, which is supposedly the native Americans word for westerners who came to them, infected with a kind of selfishness disease. Is he trying to say that these Native American populations had non dual realisation?

I do understand that, it is specifically very bad in the western world, but even in eastern traditions, it’s called “waking up”, presumably because almost everyone was “asleep”. Or was the advent of organised societies the beginning of this virus of wetiko, and when people lived in smaller collective groups, especially in harmony with the land, that being awakened was a normal occurrence?

Very interesting though. Loved the kitten analogy with the mirror.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

Post by Dontaskme »

Dimebag wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:43 pm The first half of his video was a beautiful pointer, but then he brought in the concept of wetiko, which is supposedly the native Americans word for westerners who came to them, infected with a kind of selfishness disease. Is he trying to say that these Native American populations had non dual realisation?

I do understand that, it is specifically very bad in the western world, but even in eastern traditions, it’s called “waking up”, presumably because almost everyone was “asleep”. Or was the advent of organised societies the beginning of this virus of wetiko, and when people lived in smaller collective groups, especially in harmony with the land, that being awakened was a normal occurrence?

Very interesting though. Loved the kitten analogy with the mirror.
Thanks Dimebag for taking the time to watch the video, I personally think it is of value to anyone seeking a much deeper understanding of the human condition. :D This deeper inquiry into the nature of the nondual self is abundantly available on the internet for free, for anyone who is interested, there's no need to payout a fortune to expensive practitioners of psychotherapy and psychology etc...and that's all thanks to the internet, so now, everyone can teach themselves everything they ever need to know about life and the minds psyche.

Yes, I'm pretty sure the Native A's were very aware of the nondual nature of reality.

In essence most humans are extremely selfish, and that selfishness is often disguised as goodness and generosity toward others, which is still a kind of self glorifying and self gratifying selfishness just to bolster up the human ego even further...including myself.

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PeteJ
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Re: Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

Post by PeteJ »

Dimebag wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:43 pm The first half of his video was a beautiful pointer, but then he brought in the concept of wetiko, which is supposedly the native Americans word for westerners who came to them, infected with a kind of selfishness disease. Is he trying to say that these Native American populations had non dual realisation?
I've not watched the video, but , but if you read the biography of Black Elk of the Dakotas it's clear that there is a family likeness between his world-view and that of the mystics and non-dualists.This is to be expected since they all live in the same world. Certainly their view was more sophisticated than that of the Christian immigrants. Black Elk is scathing about the idiocy of getting ones religion from a book and arguing about it like lawyers.

Beautiful Painted Arrow, a shaman of the Ute and Pueblo Indians, tells us that in his tradition there are basically two states of consciousness. In translation these are 'Believing we exist' and 'Awakened awareness'. This is very obviously a view arising from realisation related to Samsara and Nirvana and Rumi's 'two worlds'.
Or was the advent of organised societies the beginning of this virus of wetiko, and when people lived in smaller collective groups, especially in harmony with the land, that being awakened was a normal occurrence?
Maybe. It is documented in the very earliest written texts such as the Tao Te Ching and the Vedas, For the former the source is thought to be the shamanistic culture of the region's river-people and the for the latter the civilisation of the Indus valley. Nobody knows when human beings first 'got the message', but it was certainly way back in pre-history.
Dimebag
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Re: Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

Post by Dimebag »

PeteJ wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:05 am
Dimebag wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:43 pm The first half of his video was a beautiful pointer, but then he brought in the concept of wetiko, which is supposedly the native Americans word for westerners who came to them, infected with a kind of selfishness disease. Is he trying to say that these Native American populations had non dual realisation?
I've not watched the video, but , but if you read the biography of Black Elk of the Dakotas it's clear that there is a family likeness between his world-view and that of the mystics and non-dualists.This is to be expected since they all live in the same world. Certainly their view was more sophisticated than that of the Christian immigrants. Black Elk is scathing about the idiocy of getting ones religion from a book and arguing about it like lawyers.

Beautiful Painted Arrow, a shaman of the Ute and Pueblo Indians, tells us that in his tradition there are basically two states of consciousness. In translation these are 'Believing we exist' and 'Awakened awareness'. This is very obviously a view arising from realisation related to Samsara and Nirvana and Rumi's 'two worlds'.
Or was the advent of organised societies the beginning of this virus of wetiko, and when people lived in smaller collective groups, especially in harmony with the land, that being awakened was a normal occurrence?
Maybe. It is documented in the very earliest written texts such as the Tao Te Ching and the Vedas, For the former the source is thought to be the shamanistic culture of the region's river-people and the for the latter the civilisation of the Indus valley. Nobody knows when human beings first 'got the message', but it was certainly way back in pre-history.
I am starting to realise that many indigenous cultures had this knowledge of awakened awareness built into their traditions, supposedly the Australian indigenous had a similar understanding of a wetiko like concept which they used to keep out narcissism, and had a means of connecting to their environment through a meditative means.
PeteJ
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Re: Making sense of what the mind really is/n't

Post by PeteJ »

Dimebag wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:16 pm I am starting to realise that many indigenous cultures had this knowledge of awakened awareness built into their traditions, supposedly the Australian indigenous had a similar understanding of a wetiko like concept which they used to keep out narcissism, and had a means of connecting to their environment through a meditative means.
Yes. Once you start looking you'll see the same phenomena all over the world across all the ages.

I didn't discover the Perennial philosophy until the age of of fifty. Ever since then I've been wondering why it isn't on the school curriculum. Then we would have a better understanding of shamanism, wetiko and religion in general.

I recommend the biography of Black Elk of the Dakotas. A famous book and quite an eye-opener.
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