Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Skepdick
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Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07 pm This is all good Easy Problem findings. From this or any other kind of Neural Activity then, how can it be Explained that some people do not Experience things like Redness, Standard A Toneness, and Salty Tasteness. They self admittedly do not. These things seem like Religious experiences to them when you talk about them. Their Minds seem to be more Consciously imbedded in their Neurons for Perception.
Then it's fair to say that some people experience redness and some do not.
Some people experience saltiness and some do not.
Some people experience standard atoneness and some people do not.
Some people have religious experiences and some do not.

What sort of "explanation" are you looking for? Every time I ask you to formally and precisely define the notion of "explanation" you begin derailing the debate into obscurity.
SteveKlinko
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Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:34 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07 pm This is all good Easy Problem findings. From this or any other kind of Neural Activity then, how can it be Explained that some people do not Experience things like Redness, Standard A Toneness, and Salty Tasteness. They self admittedly do not. These things seem like Religious experiences to them when you talk about them. Their Minds seem to be more Consciously imbedded in their Neurons for Perception.
Then it's fair to say that some people experience redness and some do not.
Some people experience saltiness and some do not.
Some people experience standard atoneness and some people do not.
Some people have religious experiences and some do not.

What sort of "explanation" are you looking for? Every time I ask you to formally and precisely define the notion of "explanation" you begin derailing the debate into obscurity.
When someone solves the Hard Problem and therefore Explains Consciousness they will attain World acclaim. That's the sort of Explanation I am looking for. We will all know it when we see it. To demand more than that is just Semantical Obfuscation and Misdirection.
Skepdick
Posts: 4964
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:35 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:34 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07 pm This is all good Easy Problem findings. From this or any other kind of Neural Activity then, how can it be Explained that some people do not Experience things like Redness, Standard A Toneness, and Salty Tasteness. They self admittedly do not. These things seem like Religious experiences to them when you talk about them. Their Minds seem to be more Consciously imbedded in their Neurons for Perception.
Then it's fair to say that some people experience redness and some do not.
Some people experience saltiness and some do not.
Some people experience standard atoneness and some people do not.
Some people have religious experiences and some do not.

What sort of "explanation" are you looking for? Every time I ask you to formally and precisely define the notion of "explanation" you begin derailing the debate into obscurity.
When someone solves the Hard Problem and therefore Explains Consciousness they will attain World acclaim. That's the sort of Explanation I am looking for. We will all know it when we see it. To demand more than that is just Semantical Obfuscation and Misdirection.
Q.E.D

All I asked you was to give me a precise definition of "explanation" and you rebut with "we will know it when we see it".

HOW will you know if you don't even know what an "explanation" is ?!?

I do demand more than that. It's not misdirection - it is the concrete wall standing in your way towards "explaining" anything. Not just consciousness.
SteveKlinko
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Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:09 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:35 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:34 pm
Then it's fair to say that some people experience redness and some do not.
Some people experience saltiness and some do not.
Some people experience standard atoneness and some people do not.
Some people have religious experiences and some do not.

What sort of "explanation" are you looking for? Every time I ask you to formally and precisely define the notion of "explanation" you begin derailing the debate into obscurity.
When someone solves the Hard Problem and therefore Explains Consciousness they will attain World acclaim. That's the sort of Explanation I am looking for. We will all know it when we see it. To demand more than that is just Semantical Obfuscation and Misdirection.
Q.E.D

All I asked you was to give me a precise definition of "explanation" and you rebut with "we will know it when we see it".

HOW will you know if you don't even know what an "explanation" is ?!?

I do demand more than that. It's not misdirection - it is the concrete wall standing in your way towards explaining anything. Not just consciousness.
I am sticking with my answer. I like my answer. You should study my answer for a couple of months and then get back to me. You are continuing your Infantile and Unnecessary Obfuscation and Misdirection from the topic of this post. Go start another topic about the meaning of Explanation.
Skepdick
Posts: 4964
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:25 pm I am sticking with my answer. I like my answer. You should study my answer for a couple of months and then get back to me. You are continuing your Infantile and Unnecessary Obfuscation and Misdirection from the topic of this post. Go start another topic about the meaning of Explanation.
Well, I like my answer too (and zero interest to waste any time studying yours).

If "we will know it when we see it" is good enough, then I know a bullshitter when I see one.

You are it.
SteveKlinko
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Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:29 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:25 pm I am sticking with my answer. I like my answer. You should study my answer for a couple of months and then get back to me. You are continuing your Infantile and Unnecessary Obfuscation and Misdirection from the topic of this post. Go start another topic about the meaning of Explanation.
Well, I like my answer too (and zero interest to waste any time studying yours).

If "we will know it when we see it" is good enough, then I know a bullshitter when I see one.

You are it.
Yawn ...
SteveKlinko
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
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Re: Some People Might Not Have Conscious Experiences

Post by SteveKlinko »

It occurred to me that the people who claim they have no Qualia or Conscious Experiences like Redness, Standard A Toneness, or Salty Tasteness are actually not even Sentient Beings. Machines can Detect Red Electromagnetic Waves , or Detect a 440Hz Tone, or Detect the presence of Salt, but a Machine is not a Sentient Being. Likewise, the Physicalists on the Forum are technically not Sentient Beings if their claim about not having Qualia is true.
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