Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:34 pm While I cannot deny the concept RED is known, I have no idea who or what is knowing / seeing RED.
In other words, I cannot see or know the seer and the knower of RED

I believe you, at least provisionally. So long as you understand that exempts you from any further discussion of what the nature of perceived colors are, since you, "cannot know the seer," (so it cannot be you who see colors).

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:28 pm In essence all knowledge can do is point to the illusory nature of reality.

That is apparently true for what knowledge is to you. It is mistake to assume all others suffer from the same limitations as oneself. I'm not accusing you of anything. If that is what you think knowledge is you cannot help it.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:45 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:34 pm While I cannot deny the concept RED is known, I have no idea who or what is knowing / seeing RED.
In other words, I cannot see or know the seer and the knower of RED

I believe you, at least provisionally. So long as you understand that exempts you from any further discussion of what the nature of perceived colors are, since you, "cannot know the seer," (so it cannot be you who see colors).

The colour red is known, and that which is known cannot know of it's existence.

The colour red does not actually exist within the concept itself. In the same context the sky never tells itself it is red on a bright sunset evening.

When asking to explain the conscious experience of any concept, there simply is no discussion to have on the matter. Any discussion is simply part of the experience that demands to be explained, hence back to square one again.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 pm But the known is not known by the known...ok?

Sure! Thanks, and have a nice day!

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:28 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:09 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:00 pm

Seeing the colour red is an experience I am apparently having, but I have no idea who or what is having that experience or why.

Exactly. Me either.

The question of who or what or why do I see the colour red doesn't arise in an animal, and yet the question arises in a human being. And yet a human being and an animal share the exact same existence. So where does the experience of I exist so I must be able to explain this..where does that come from except as and through thought,language, and knowledge which is just another appearance, aka an experience...that cannot be explained.

In essence all knowledge can do is point to the illusory nature of reality.

.

I know that I am the Light (Conscious Light not Electromagnetic Light) that I Experience. But saying that, doesn't solve the Problem of why it Seems like I'm looking at the Light as an Observer.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:50 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:28 pm In essence all knowledge can do is point to the illusory nature of reality.

That is apparently true for what knowledge is to you. It is mistake to assume all others suffer from the same limitations as oneself. I'm not accusing you of anything. If that is what you think knowledge is you cannot help it.

But the 'you' concept is knowledge.

There is no 'you' that has this knowledge, the 'you' is the knowledge...a knowledge that can only point to the illusion of reality...in that there is no knowledge of reality except within the dream of separation aka duality, aka the realm of human language expressed as and through knowledge...this has to be realised.

Conscious existence doesn't require a knowledge to be...but a knowledge requires consciousness existence to be. But there is no knower experiencing this conscious existence, the knower is the experience conscious existence is having one with that knowing.
In other words ...there is no 'you' because there is no other than 'you' ...you are one.
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SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:00 pm I know that I am the Light (Conscious Light not Electromagnetic Light) that I Experience. But saying that, doesn't solve the Problem of why it Seems like I'm looking at the Light as an Observer.

That which is being looked at is what is looking.

That is all that can be known about that.

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While looking at your hand the hand is known.

But the hand is not what is looking, the hand is being looked upon.

No hand has ever been seen in the same sense the seer has never been seen. The hand is just an idea, it's a concept that has no concept of it's existence. It doesn't exist outside of it's imagined conception.

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RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:53 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 pm But the known is not known by the known...ok?

Sure! Thanks, and have a nice day!

But think about it, can a known thing know anything?

There is no thing knowing a thing.

If a known thing can know...then explain how it knows, and what it knows?

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:08 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:00 pm I know that I am the Light (Conscious Light not Electromagnetic Light) that I Experience. But saying that, doesn't solve the Problem of why it Seems like I'm looking at the Light as an Observer.

That which is being looked at is what is looking.

That is all that can be known about that.

.

I know what you are trying to say but it rings hollow to me. Maybe I'll get it someday.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:06 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:59 pm Experience is needed for any response. People respond. Therefore, they are conscious.

They are Conscious but do they Experience something like Redness as a thing in itself or do they just Detect Red without the Experience?

Redness is an experience of an object that is red, by red I mean that matter is in a specific form such that you can see the property of red.

BLUE
GREEN
RED

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:20 pm BLUE
GREEN
RED

-Imp

You are kidding.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:59 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:20 pm BLUE
GREEN
RED

-Imp

You are kidding.

not at all... do you see the color or do you see the word?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:59 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:20 pm BLUE
GREEN
RED

-Imp

You are kidding.

not at all... do you see the color or do you see the word?

-Imp

Both.