The grand illusion that is YOU

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 pm I am not a logician but I know that something cannot be true and false at the same time.
The concepts exist in the same moment, else they would have no meaning.

Within the dream of separation where these two concepts are divided by definition they don't exist at the same time, of course.
But in reality...there is nothing that is true or false, except within the conception, aka the story, aka a dream.
In reality, nothing ever happened, happens, or is happening in a dream.

bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 pm Something cannot exist an exist not at the same time. Some cannot be full and empty at the same time.

Moreover, you seem to mix negate with opposite.
There is no 'you' to mix or negate with opposites, except as an idea.

"I" is the empty awareness that I AM = (empty and full at the SAME TIME)

Objectifying what I am as a subjective entity is making a self of what I am. As soon as this concept becomes a reflex action (usually very early in life) I am in bondage to that concept.

Losing one's 'self' in what is Here is finding that 'Here" is what one is. = EMPTY AND FULL AT THE SAME TIME.

Is a glass of beer filled half way... half full or half empty? ...it's both at the same time, depending what thought wants to impose on the observation.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Losing one's 'self' in what is Here is finding that 'Here" is what one is. = EMPTY AND FULL AT THE SAME TIME.


You cannot experience your own presence or absence.

Except via thought, which is not who you are. :D
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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AlexW wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:51 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:08 pm I think that the information that we perceive is discrete. It is the duty of the brain to fill the gap between and allows a continuous experience.
So... are you saying that reality is like watching TV? Cut into little chunks of static/discrete frames?

and yes, of course I understand that the motion we seem to be perceiving on a TV screen is an optical illusion - a 60fps illusion - but this does not mean that in-between the frames there is nothing, there still is the direct experience of seeing. The direct experience/reality is continuing, no matter if the screen is blank or if it is filled with color.

Thought of course has no interest (or rather not the capacity) in interpreting/conceptualising the "gaps" - it can only deal with coloured pictures, but they are only temporary - the screen however, blank or not, is always there - it is forever one, unbroken whole.
Hmmm. The space-time is discrete for example, Planck length-time. My justification? There must be at least a constant in any physical theory to make the measurement possible. Continuum is not physically healthy since it is divisible so you cannot define a segment with unit of one.
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:30 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 pm I am not a logician but I know that something cannot be true and false at the same time.
The concepts exist in the same moment, else they would have no meaning.
If idea does not exist then why you are bothering to communicate? To tell that there is no idea or idea has no menaing is an idea itself.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:30 am Within the dream of separation where these two concepts are divided by definition they don't exist at the same time, of course.
Even dreams are meaningful otherwise you couldn't tell it to others.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:30 am But in reality...there is nothing that is true or false, except within the conception, aka the story, aka a dream.
In reality, nothing ever happened, happens, or is happening in a dream.
You are contradicting yourself here.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:30 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 pm Something cannot exist an exist not at the same time. Some cannot be full and empty at the same time.

Moreover, you seem to mix negate with opposite.
There is no 'you' to mix or negate with opposites, except as an idea.

"I" is the empty awareness that I AM = (empty and full at the SAME TIME)

Objectifying what I am as a subjective entity is making a self of what I am. As soon as this concept becomes a reflex action (usually very early in life) I am in bondage to that concept.

Losing one's 'self' in what is Here is finding that 'Here" is what one is. = EMPTY AND FULL AT THE SAME TIME.

Is a glass of beer filled half way... half full or half empty? ...it's both at the same time, depending what thought wants to impose on the observation.
Of course, there is a mind. You need to understand my argument.
AlexW
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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bahman wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:03 pm Hmmm. The space-time is discrete for example, Planck length-time. My justification? There must be at least a constant in any physical theory to make the measurement possible. Continuum is not physically healthy since it is divisible so you cannot define a segment with unit of one.
Yes, there has to be separation "in any physical theory" - but this doesn't mean that reality is based on separation.
Physics/science postulates and then measures ideas, not reality - it attempts to prove that an idea is true and correct by applying a yard stick that has been invented as part of the theory - this is why it seems to work (not because it is actually true).
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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AlexW wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:30 am
bahman wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:03 pm Hmmm. The space-time is discrete for example, Planck length-time. My justification? There must be at least a constant in any physical theory to make the measurement possible. Continuum is not physically healthy since it is divisible so you cannot define a segment with unit of one.
Yes, there has to be separation "in any physical theory" - but this doesn't mean that reality is based on separation.
Physics/science postulates and then measures ideas, not reality - it attempts to prove that an idea is true and correct by applying a yard stick that has been invented as part of the theory - this is why it seems to work (not because it is actually true).
So you think that the reality is continuous?
AlexW
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by AlexW »

bahman wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:36 am So you think that the reality is continuous?
Yes (even, ultimately, it is neither continuous nor split into discrete pieces - as both are just conceptual ideas and reality is beyond all concepts - but for this discussion, yes, continuous rather than discrete)
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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Dontaskme wrote:You cannot experience your own presence or absence.
...
Feel that pressure on your feet? Hear your heartbeat or breath? Touch your thumb and index finger? Look down and see your body?
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Arising_uk wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:17 am
Feel that pressure on your feet?
Sensation of pressure is an 'experience' of and in Presence which is just another word for Consciousness. The 'Experiencer' of sensation is inseparable from the sensation in the exact same instantaneous moment. So how would/could the instantaneous moment be glimpsed and by WHO?

In reality, No body ever experiences the presence or absence of any sensation, as sensation is inseparable from the senser in the exact same moment - the feeler and the felt is one unitary action.

A glimpse of what is one unitary action could only apply to a state known as self-reflection. This apparent reflex reactionary, reflective state is born of ''thought'' which is a phantom appearance within consciousness itself, the reflex action is born of mind, it is only the mind that is born, NOT CONSCIOUSNESS.

Arising_uk wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:17 amHear your heartbeat or breath? Touch your thumb and index finger? Look down and see your body?
See above.

.
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by bahman »

AlexW wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:57 am
bahman wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:36 am So you think that the reality is continuous?
Yes (even, ultimately, it is neither continuous nor split into discrete pieces - as both are just conceptual ideas and reality is beyond all concepts - but for this discussion, yes, continuous rather than discrete)
And you know that the measurement is not possible in continuous reality since everything is divisible?
AlexW
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by AlexW »

bahman wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:00 pm And you know that the measurement is not possible in continuous reality
Yes, thats why I said previously: "Physics/science postulates and then measures ideas, not reality - it attempts to prove that an idea is true and correct by applying a yard stick that has been invented as part of the theory."
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