The grand illusion that is YOU

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:37 am The phantom entity is both full and empty at the same time.
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:31 am That is an impossibility by definition.
No it is not.

The concept '''impossibility'' has no meaning, nor does the concept even exist without it's opposite concept in relationship to itself. The connection is born of ''thought'' by association as each and every 'thought' is triggered by the preceding 'thought' creating the illusion of a ''knower'' existing as a continuity, even though this ''knower'' is just a strawman mental narrative known as knowledge. In reality there is no IDENTIFIED knower.

Therefore,conceptual opposites have to exist in the exact same instant, else, nothing would make sense in a conceptual knowledgeable way. Each opposite defines the other, else neither exists...so both ideas have to exist at exactly the same time in supposition.




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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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So whats the opposite to "I am"?
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Arising_uk wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:48 am So whats the opposite to "I am"?
Opposites only exist within the illusory dream of separation, the apparent duality which is a mental narrative known as knowledge.

Knowledge is nothing more than a story/dream appearance within Consciousness / I AM itself.

I AM has no opposite other than itself alone. In the sense I AM Awareness aware I AM aware, as in Conscious-ness. There is no opposite there, except in this conception...aka dream.

The I AM ..aka Consciousness does not appear, or disappear. It is impossible to be conscious of the disappearance of Consciousness.

If Consciousness disappears, it must have first appeared. In order to appear and disappear Consciousness would have to be an object, because only an object can appear or disappear...aka the dream story. Whatever it is that is seeing these words is both conscious and present. Whatever is seeing the images on the screen of Consciousness is conscious and present. The images are not conscious for they are dream objects that appear and disappear in this present.

This conscious present I AM cannot be found as an object nor can any objective qualities be attributed to it. The same is true of that which is aware of these words, ie: Awareness. You can check that out in your own direct experience.

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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Arising_uk »

Poor old Rene.

So that'll be a no then, there is no opposite hence your claim that there always is was false.
Dontaskme wrote:
This conscious present I AM cannot be found as an object nor can any objective qualities be attributed to it. The same is true of that which is aware of these words, ie: Awareness. You can check that out in your own direct experience.
I've just done a quick direct experience check and I find that the object is a body with senses, memory and language in an external world.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Arising_uk wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:50 am Poor old Rene.

So that'll be a no then, there is no opposite hence your claim that there always is was false.
Yes, that's correct, all claimers of knowledge are false.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Dontaskme wrote: Yes, that's correct, all claimers of knowledge are false.
Is this knowledge claim true of false? :roll:
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

Arising_uk wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:11 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Yes, that's correct, all claimers of knowledge are false.
Is this knowledge claim true of false? :roll:
All knowledge claims are false. This is true.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Dontaskme wrote:
All knowledge claims are false. This is true.
So the above is false?
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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Arising_uk wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:16 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
All knowledge claims are false. This is true.
So the above is false?
Yes, the above is false, that is the truth.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Arising_uk »

Dontaskme wrote: Yes, the above is false, that is the truth.
So you don't know this then.

You really should return to whatever new age forum you came from.
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:17 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:37 am The phantom entity is both full and empty at the same time.
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:31 am That is an impossibility by definition.
No it is not.

The concept '''impossibility'' has no meaning, nor does the concept even exist without it's opposite concept in relationship to itself. The connection is born of ''thought'' by association as each and every 'thought' is triggered by the preceding 'thought' creating the illusion of a ''knower'' existing as a continuity, even though this ''knower'' is just a strawman mental narrative known as knowledge. In reality there is no IDENTIFIED knower.

Therefore,conceptual opposites have to exist in the exact same instant, else, nothing would make sense in a conceptual knowledgeable way. Each opposite defines the other, else neither exists...so both ideas have to exist at exactly the same time in supposition.




.
I am not a logician but I know that something cannot be true and false at the same time. Something cannot exist an exist not at the same time. Some cannot be full and empty at the same time.

Moreover, you seem to mix negate with opposite.
commonsense
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by commonsense »

LOL
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by bahman »

AlexW wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:05 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 am I believe that is the state that you could reach it by deep meditation.
Ok... so you haven't actually observed it.
I can put myself in a state that I don't experience for a short period but I believe that is different from a deep meditation.
AlexW wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:05 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 am You are constanly causing or you are in state of meditation.
What exactly is the "you" in this sentence?
It is my mind that is the essence of mine with the ability to experience, decide and act.
AlexW wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:05 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 am You experience it therefore it exists.
I have never experienced a discrete state - yes, I can think about states, but I cannot experience them directly.
I am sure that you know that the movie that you watch is discrete, it is a set of frames. Your brain just fills the gap between frames and produces a continuous experience.
AlexW wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:05 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 am It could be something that you create, such as a thought
How do you create a thought? What exactly do you have to do to make a thought happen/arise?
A thought is a relation between a set of ideas. We collect ideas by interacting with reality. Mind then relates ideas together in form of new thought depending on how ideas are structured inside mind. Thinking is done while we focus on a subject matter.
AlexW wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:05 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 am The reality in its core is discrete as it is illustrated by my argument.
Just because you illustrate it, it doesn't have to be so... it is a proposal, your personal interpretation, not a fact.
I have to say the quantum field formulation also is discrete. Matter can move as a result of annihilation and creation of quantum fields.
AlexW wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:05 am
bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 am Why we experience it continuously is another question. Our brain is simply a barrier since it cannot digitize the information that we perceive fast enough.
If brains "digitize the information that we perceive" then the received data would initially have to be analog/continuous in nature (digitizing digital data wouldn't make much sense, would it?).
Thus the question "Why we experience it continuously" is already answered: because experience is analog/continuous and not split into small separate chunks.
I think that the information that we perceive is discrete. It is the duty of the brain to fill the gap between and allows a continuous experience.
AlexW
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by AlexW »

bahman wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:08 pm I think that the information that we perceive is discrete. It is the duty of the brain to fill the gap between and allows a continuous experience.
So... are you saying that reality is like watching TV? Cut into little chunks of static/discrete frames?

and yes, of course I understand that the motion we seem to be perceiving on a TV screen is an optical illusion - a 60fps illusion - but this does not mean that in-between the frames there is nothing, there still is the direct experience of seeing. The direct experience/reality is continuing, no matter if the screen is blank or if it is filled with color.

Thought of course has no interest (or rather not the capacity) in interpreting/conceptualising the "gaps" - it can only deal with coloured pictures, but they are only temporary - the screen however, blank or not, is always there - it is forever one, unbroken whole.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

Arising_uk wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:16 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Yes, the above is false, that is the truth.
So you don't know this then.

You really should return to whatever new age forum you came from.

No I don't know anything except what I make up, what I imagine, what I think I know, even though I have no idea what a thought is.

BTW, this is the only forum I am a member of. One is enough for me. We're all in the same box, there is nothing outside the box, that is not inside the box.

The box being another word for head. :wink:
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