The grand illusion that is YOU

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

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Age
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 am Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

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There is no birth as there was no death.

There is only change within thee One.
Impenitent
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Impenitent »

Dennis DeYoung is smiling...

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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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''Life and death are one thread, the same line viewed from different sides.''

Lao Tzu
commonsense
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by commonsense »

It is you that is the illusion, not me.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

commonsense wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:48 pm It is you that is the illusion, not me.
However, there is no me without you.

The illusion is a two way mirror reflecting upon itself.
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by commonsense »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:13 am
commonsense wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:48 pm It is you that is the illusion, not me.
However, there is no me without you.

The illusion is a two way mirror reflecting upon itself.
I know there is me, but you could be an illusion of my own making. There is no illusion of you without my imagination. Btw a mirror can not reflect itself. It can reflect images of things other than itself, but it can no more than flect itself.
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 am Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

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That is the grand delusion.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

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commonsense wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:56 pm
Btw a mirror can not reflect itself. It can reflect images of things other than itself, but it can no more than flect itself.
The mind is a metaphor for a ''mirror'' for without a mind (mirror) as this projection screen, what or where is this 'you' thing, what or where is this 'me' thing?

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Last edited by Dontaskme on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:22 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 am Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

.
That is the grand delusion.
Or just a play on words.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Arising_uk »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 am Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

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Not really, as you have to be born before you can die. Living is the brief existence between birth and death.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by Dontaskme »

Arising_uk wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:52 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 am Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

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Not really, as you have to be born before you can die.
Not really, because logic shows that that which lives never dies and that which dies never lived.

One cannot know the concept birth without knowing the concept death.

The concepts (birth and death) are KNOWN..and that which is KNOWN knows nothing. AND nothing cannot be an experience.

And is why birth and death are the same thing, except they just differ in appearance.

Nothing is neither alive nor dead ..except in this conception, aka the dream story.

“The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.”

Only the mind is born not 'you'
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bahman
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:48 am
bahman wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:22 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 am Birth is a brief appearance between two deaths.

.
That is the grand delusion.
Or just a play on words.
Self-evolving ideas? No. There are only evolving ideas and for that you need mind.
commonsense
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by commonsense »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:47 am
commonsense wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:56 pm
Btw a mirror can not reflect itself. It can reflect images of things other than itself, but it can no more than flect itself.
The mind is a metaphor for a ''mirror'' for without a mind (mirror) as this projection screen, what or where is this 'you' thing, what or where is this 'me' thing?
The mirror, albeit it is that for which your “mind” is a metaphor per you who was that which cannot speak of a mind, having been made so, and who cannot see projections for reasons that are not exactly different than the former, is the essence of not a projection screen for it projects its light without a screen upon which to project anything.

Therefore I am exactly what I am and I am exactly where I am. You are not. You are what I make, where I make you.
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Re: The grand illusion that is YOU

Post by osgart »

Without memory there is no awareness and without a subject of memory we can't objectify reality. The illusion is real. Reality is so real that we can't possibly experience it to its fullest extent.

Perception is accurate enough to give us a reliable interface with reality. It filters out that which isn't instinctually useful.

From memory and perception comes reason. From reason we come to know the subject of consciousness, the individual self. The self is known because we care about ourselves, the other is known the same way.

What gives cause to call all this an illusion? We are the subject of our experiences and not merely a play of experiences that reach out to nothing.

That may be boring. But how can you escape it? Why would you want to?

It's like saying that reality is telling a lie to something that doesn't exist in the first place. Or perhaps the taste of chocolate is a biofeedback loop to a non existent entity. In that case the experience is had by no one and is never even known. The chocolate goes down the hatch and all the chewing motions, and all the sensations fall to nothing.

Bottom line you can't escape the Iness of I, the youness of you.

It's more then a practical tool that keeps you surviving. The experience of knowing I is actually pretty amazing.

Even in the case of a split brain patient who has no corpus callosum. The patient has two separate experiences in one person. They develope two distinct personalities, but are merely one person reporting no difference in how they perceive themselves. One side retains identity, the other has become detached from self in their awareness of self.

Imo, the brain is channeling information to a subject. If the channel is lost then a large chunk of conscious experience is left out of the self awareness loop. So a faculty becomes lost. And it's probably not completely lost. The brain is there for the self to realize itself and its surroundings. I would think there are many channels, and a unifying coherence channel. The unconscious self and the conscious self are filtered to a unified whole that is the subject of experiences.



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