The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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gaffo
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
I'm a solipsist.

why do you assume there are minds, and that the mind and brain are different?

for that matter why should i assume there is a you?
Dubious
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by Dubious »

In which case the brain would have to go in circles to feed itself. If the body worked that way meals wouldn't be the same but we would save a ton on grocery bills and toilet paper :(
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
I'm a solipsist.
So you are writing these words?
gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am why do you assume there are minds,
The mind is needed for any change, changes exist, therefore there are minds.
gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am and that the mind and brain are different?
The mind is the essence of which doesn't change. Brain is a part of the body which changes.

gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am For that matter why should i assume there is a you?
Because, you now know something new which was not part of your mind in the past.
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm
So you are writing these words?
maybe from Faith - via Faith in a material world as reality.

not from Empiricism, which is what Descarte (me? or real person that is not me?) claimed prior to selling out and 10-20 yrs later affirming the unaffirmable.

I am - right now, not in the past not in the future, just right now. that is what he (I?) said.


BTW i was 16 when i understood this mentality, 5 yrs younger than Descarte - who may have existed, or not, and just happened to be me learning about that man 5 yrs later - whom i lever know about until college, coming to the same mentality i had an inspiration about indepentently (or not indepentently, if Solipisism is true - then he and i are the same being).


Empiricism is about Logic, what is provable.

so no i cannot prove i am writing these words to "you" (myself) - to assume "writting" assumes there is a physical reality, and so requires Faith.

I don't do Faith, and why i am an Atheist (which offers nothing - and do not wish anyone (even if there are no anyones "out there" - and i am just playing a game talking to myself (maybe i am/ or not - no empircal evidence to determine) - i just use empiricism, as i have since a 15 yr old (long ago now - 39 yrs now) to know my limitations via my nature - to know that.

I AM - right now.

not in the past nor future.

-others existing? for sanity i have assumed you exist to function as a man with a house and job, i do not take it for a Truth. so i guess i have Faith you exist - for my own selfish reasons - sanity.

I am SPECIFIC about Truth though, and per IT - I know I exist, and you cannot prove you exist outside of me (as an existing entity) - other than me talking to me out of some perverse "self talk" - "you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! I exist and i can prove it when i cave your skull in"

ok, but per emiricism you are all wet. so i cave my own skull in (skulls to not exist emirically) and die,..................to what?

no idea, my nature is limited to logic and the provable in this reality - i do not concern myself with the "afterlife" - yay nor nay (my "afterlife" - since you cannot prove you exist - there is only me that i know exists - now - not in the future, so might just cease to exist after my "death" - or not - my nature is too limited (by lightyears to even bother with the question - so i dont care about it (and why i am not anti Religious)

I know what is knowable (my limits via my nature) -since i was 16,

I'm 54 now, nothing has changed, sadly no higher Emprical truth than "I exist" - right now - not in the past, nor assume in the next 10 seconds.

I suspect i was born an "old soul" - if i do say so myself (i do value humility - a virtue, and loath pride - so just stating facts in my life, just saying i was always been a thinker, and knew i reached the highest level in this reality via logic when i was 16, and so let "philosophy go" all the decades after.


bahman wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm
gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am For that matter why should i assume there is a you?
Because, you now know something new which was not part of your mind in the past.
you error in your view of Solipsism - which is literally - 'I am" (right now) - nothing more. I am not a God nor God, definition of God/s is all powerful all omini present

FUCK I CANT EVEN SPELL!!!!!!!!!!!!! - but via logic/emiricism i KNOW I EXIST NOW.


I know you cannot prove you exist, and know you can reply and shout to the sky I EXIST AND AM AN HUMAN BEING LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! - for centuries.

- but to no avial, you cannot prove you exist (you might exist, and i affirm you do for my sanities sake (but do you? - you cannot prove it)- or you could me me playing with myself (i do that sometimes - joke-too sexual - poor teste - bad joke/etc)

for my sanity, i assume you exist via my Atheist Faith that i am not God (a God that likes to play with himself/talk to himself/and with limited knowledge and wisdom) - but maybe i am just that!?

thanks for reply - even if i might be thanking myself.
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Yes the Conscious Mind is the final processing stage for Experiencing things like the Redness of Red, the Standard A Tone, the Salty Taste, or the Smell of Bleach. But everyone might have a slightly different Experience for each of these things. However, it is probably true that these Experiences are pretty similar. How different could they be? Is it possible to have the Auditory and Visual Experiences swapped such that we See Sound and Hear Color? Seems to happen during experiments with Psychoactive drugs.
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henry quirk
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"I'm a solipsist."

Post by henry quirk »

I'm not

why?

as I say (in other threads): I'm absolutely too friggin' stupid to be makin' the world up

so: if I ain't makin' it up, the world exists
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RCSaunders
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:48 pm Where does the mind end and the body begin?
You can add as many "ands" ans you like, but you have no justification to the range of dualities of your conception empirically.
Is the fact that there is a difference between physical entities that are living (organisms) and all other physical entities that aren't, dualism? Nonliving entities obviously do not have the attribute, "life." What about organism that have consciousness (all animals) which plants and non-living entities do not have. Is observing that conscious organisms have an attribute non-living and mere living organisms do not have, dualism? Why would the observation that human beings have a unique kind of consciousness that is volitional, intellectual, and rational be dualism? The mind is not a, "thing," or a, "substance," not another kind of entity, but an attribute or quality, perfectly natural, like consciousness and life, just not a physical attribute.

Where does the mind end and the body begin is a wrong question. The body comes before the mind? There is a hierarchy, physical entities, living physical entities, conscious living physical entities, and mental conscious physical living entities. There is no mind independent of a conscious organism, and no conscious organism independent of a living organism, and no living organism independent of a physical entity. The mind begins when a conscious organism is able to consciously choose its behavior (volition), learn (intellect), and think (rationality). There is no supernaturalism or dualism.
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by RCSaunders »

gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am I'm a solipsist.
Sorry to hear that.

I understand the cure is very painful.
gaffo
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by gaffo »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:46 pm
gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am I'm a solipsist.
Sorry to hear that.

I understand the cure is very painful.
yes it is, and why i do not persue a cure.

hows your big black boyfriend doing, doing you.
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RCSaunders
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by RCSaunders »

gaffo wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:09 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:46 pm
gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am I'm a solipsist.
Sorry to hear that.

I understand the cure is very painful.
yes it is, and why i do not persue a cure.

hows your big black boyfriend doing, doing you.
Tell you what. You can say anything you want about me or to me, and I'll never be offended. But I draw the line at any reference to race. We're done.
gaffo
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by gaffo »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:25 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:09 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:46 pm
Sorry to hear that.

I understand the cure is very painful.
yes it is, and why i do not persue a cure.

hows your big black boyfriend doing, doing you.
Tell you what. You can say anything you want about me or to me, and I'll never be offended. But I draw the line at any reference to race. We're done.
ok, whatever you say. for the record i am not a racist nor care to defend myself - though i just did in this case.

you posted a flippant reply to my solipsist reply to - not you, and so i returned my own flippent reply to you.

- so we are even.

you do offer valid and valuable posts, but not in this particular.

so if you say "Bye" - i return the favor.

see yu.
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

gaffo wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:42 am
bahman wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm
So you are writing these words?
maybe from Faith - via Faith in a material world as reality.

not from Empiricism, which is what Descarte (me? or real person that is not me?) claimed prior to selling out and 10-20 yrs later affirming the unaffirmable.

I am - right now, not in the past not in the future, just right now. that is what he (I?) said.


BTW i was 16 when i understood this mentality, 5 yrs younger than Descarte - who may have existed, or not, and just happened to be me learning about that man 5 yrs later - whom i lever know about until college, coming to the same mentality i had an inspiration about indepentently (or not indepentently, if Solipisism is true - then he and i are the same being).


Empiricism is about Logic, what is provable.

so no i cannot prove i am writing these words to "you" (myself) - to assume "writting" assumes there is a physical reality, and so requires Faith.

I don't do Faith, and why i am an Atheist (which offers nothing - and do not wish anyone (even if there are no anyones "out there" - and i am just playing a game talking to myself (maybe i am/ or not - no empircal evidence to determine) - i just use empiricism, as i have since a 15 yr old (long ago now - 39 yrs now) to know my limitations via my nature - to know that.

I AM - right now.

not in the past nor future.

-others existing? for sanity i have assumed you exist to function as a man with a house and job, i do not take it for a Truth. so i guess i have Faith you exist - for my own selfish reasons - sanity.

I am SPECIFIC about Truth though, and per IT - I know I exist, and you cannot prove you exist outside of me (as an existing entity) - other than me talking to me out of some perverse "self talk" - "you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! I exist and i can prove it when i cave your skull in"

ok, but per emiricism you are all wet. so i cave my own skull in (skulls to not exist emirically) and die,..................to what?

no idea, my nature is limited to logic and the provable in this reality - i do not concern myself with the "afterlife" - yay nor nay (my "afterlife" - since you cannot prove you exist - there is only me that i know exists - now - not in the future, so might just cease to exist after my "death" - or not - my nature is too limited (by lightyears to even bother with the question - so i dont care about it (and why i am not anti Religious)

I know what is knowable (my limits via my nature) -since i was 16,

I'm 54 now, nothing has changed, sadly no higher Emprical truth than "I exist" - right now - not in the past, nor assume in the next 10 seconds.

I suspect i was born an "old soul" - if i do say so myself (i do value humility - a virtue, and loath pride - so just stating facts in my life, just saying i was always been a thinker, and knew i reached the highest level in this reality via logic when i was 16, and so let "philosophy go" all the decades after.


bahman wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm
gaffo wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 am For that matter why should i assume there is a you?
Because, you now know something new which was not part of your mind in the past.
you error in your view of Solipsism - which is literally - 'I am" (right now) - nothing more. I am not a God nor God, definition of God/s is all powerful all omini present

FUCK I CANT EVEN SPELL!!!!!!!!!!!!! - but via logic/emiricism i KNOW I EXIST NOW.


I know you cannot prove you exist, and know you can reply and shout to the sky I EXIST AND AM AN HUMAN BEING LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! - for centuries.

- but to no avial, you cannot prove you exist (you might exist, and i affirm you do for my sanities sake (but do you? - you cannot prove it)- or you could me me playing with myself (i do that sometimes - joke-too sexual - poor teste - bad joke/etc)

for my sanity, i assume you exist via my Atheist Faith that i am not God (a God that likes to play with himself/talk to himself/and with limited knowledge and wisdom) - but maybe i am just that!?

thanks for reply - even if i might be thanking myself.
I have a proof that conscious mind exists since change exists. I would share it with you if you are interested. I have another argument for existence of other minds. Let me know so I share them with you.
gaffo
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:23 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:42 am
bahman wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm
So you are writing these words?
maybe from Faith - via Faith in a material world as reality.

not from Empiricism, which is what Descarte (me? or real person that is not me?) claimed prior to selling out and 10-20 yrs later affirming the unaffirmable.

I am - right now, not in the past not in the future, just right now. that is what he (I?) said.


BTW i was 16 when i understood this mentality, 5 yrs younger than Descarte - who may have existed, or not, and just happened to be me learning about that man 5 yrs later - whom i lever know about until college, coming to the same mentality i had an inspiration about indepentently (or not indepentently, if Solipisism is true - then he and i are the same being).


Empiricism is about Logic, what is provable.

so no i cannot prove i am writing these words to "you" (myself) - to assume "writting" assumes there is a physical reality, and so requires Faith.

I don't do Faith, and why i am an Atheist (which offers nothing - and do not wish anyone (even if there are no anyones "out there" - and i am just playing a game talking to myself (maybe i am/ or not - no empircal evidence to determine) - i just use empiricism, as i have since a 15 yr old (long ago now - 39 yrs now) to know my limitations via my nature - to know that.

I AM - right now.

not in the past nor future.

-others existing? for sanity i have assumed you exist to function as a man with a house and job, i do not take it for a Truth. so i guess i have Faith you exist - for my own selfish reasons - sanity.

I am SPECIFIC about Truth though, and per IT - I know I exist, and you cannot prove you exist outside of me (as an existing entity) - other than me talking to me out of some perverse "self talk" - "you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! I exist and i can prove it when i cave your skull in"

ok, but per emiricism you are all wet. so i cave my own skull in (skulls to not exist emirically) and die,..................to what?

no idea, my nature is limited to logic and the provable in this reality - i do not concern myself with the "afterlife" - yay nor nay (my "afterlife" - since you cannot prove you exist - there is only me that i know exists - now - not in the future, so might just cease to exist after my "death" - or not - my nature is too limited (by lightyears to even bother with the question - so i dont care about it (and why i am not anti Religious)

I know what is knowable (my limits via my nature) -since i was 16,

I'm 54 now, nothing has changed, sadly no higher Emprical truth than "I exist" - right now - not in the past, nor assume in the next 10 seconds.

I suspect i was born an "old soul" - if i do say so myself (i do value humility - a virtue, and loath pride - so just stating facts in my life, just saying i was always been a thinker, and knew i reached the highest level in this reality via logic when i was 16, and so let "philosophy go" all the decades after.


bahman wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm
Because, you now know something new which was not part of your mind in the past.
you error in your view of Solipsism - which is literally - 'I am" (right now) - nothing more. I am not a God nor God, definition of God/s is all powerful all omini present

FUCK I CANT EVEN SPELL!!!!!!!!!!!!! - but via logic/emiricism i KNOW I EXIST NOW.


I know you cannot prove you exist, and know you can reply and shout to the sky I EXIST AND AM AN HUMAN BEING LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! - for centuries.

- but to no avial, you cannot prove you exist (you might exist, and i affirm you do for my sanities sake (but do you? - you cannot prove it)- or you could me me playing with myself (i do that sometimes - joke-too sexual - poor teste - bad joke/etc)

for my sanity, i assume you exist via my Atheist Faith that i am not God (a God that likes to play with himself/talk to himself/and with limited knowledge and wisdom) - but maybe i am just that!?

thanks for reply - even if i might be thanking myself.
I have a proof that conscious mind exists since change exists. I would share it with you if you are interested. I have another argument for existence of other minds. Let me know so I share them with you.
i thank you for the reply, but you cannot prove that you exist. and i see no point in the exercise, i welcome general discussion, and i welcome discussion with you about all things - i like cats BTW, but the whole Solipsism thing is clear. and its as i state above.

i thank you for your reply - i got dickish with the black panther (maybe dickish with myself? - did not like his flippant reply - and I'm not a Christian to turn the other cheek, i am more Judiac and return the insult - in proportion (but i suspect i returned it a little moreso than proper, i could blaime it on 8 beers but won't) - lol....though i did, lol

again i thank you for your reply and interest in Solipsism (though the latter really only offers an extremly limited Truth, and nothing more).

sadly.
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:06 am
bahman wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:23 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:42 am

maybe from Faith - via Faith in a material world as reality.

not from Empiricism, which is what Descarte (me? or real person that is not me?) claimed prior to selling out and 10-20 yrs later affirming the unaffirmable.

I am - right now, not in the past not in the future, just right now. that is what he (I?) said.


BTW i was 16 when i understood this mentality, 5 yrs younger than Descarte - who may have existed, or not, and just happened to be me learning about that man 5 yrs later - whom i lever know about until college, coming to the same mentality i had an inspiration about indepentently (or not indepentently, if Solipisism is true - then he and i are the same being).


Empiricism is about Logic, what is provable.

so no i cannot prove i am writing these words to "you" (myself) - to assume "writting" assumes there is a physical reality, and so requires Faith.

I don't do Faith, and why i am an Atheist (which offers nothing - and do not wish anyone (even if there are no anyones "out there" - and i am just playing a game talking to myself (maybe i am/ or not - no empircal evidence to determine) - i just use empiricism, as i have since a 15 yr old (long ago now - 39 yrs now) to know my limitations via my nature - to know that.

I AM - right now.

not in the past nor future.

-others existing? for sanity i have assumed you exist to function as a man with a house and job, i do not take it for a Truth. so i guess i have Faith you exist - for my own selfish reasons - sanity.

I am SPECIFIC about Truth though, and per IT - I know I exist, and you cannot prove you exist outside of me (as an existing entity) - other than me talking to me out of some perverse "self talk" - "you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! I exist and i can prove it when i cave your skull in"

ok, but per emiricism you are all wet. so i cave my own skull in (skulls to not exist emirically) and die,..................to what?

no idea, my nature is limited to logic and the provable in this reality - i do not concern myself with the "afterlife" - yay nor nay (my "afterlife" - since you cannot prove you exist - there is only me that i know exists - now - not in the future, so might just cease to exist after my "death" - or not - my nature is too limited (by lightyears to even bother with the question - so i dont care about it (and why i am not anti Religious)

I know what is knowable (my limits via my nature) -since i was 16,

I'm 54 now, nothing has changed, sadly no higher Emprical truth than "I exist" - right now - not in the past, nor assume in the next 10 seconds.

I suspect i was born an "old soul" - if i do say so myself (i do value humility - a virtue, and loath pride - so just stating facts in my life, just saying i was always been a thinker, and knew i reached the highest level in this reality via logic when i was 16, and so let "philosophy go" all the decades after.





you error in your view of Solipsism - which is literally - 'I am" (right now) - nothing more. I am not a God nor God, definition of God/s is all powerful all omini present

FUCK I CANT EVEN SPELL!!!!!!!!!!!!! - but via logic/emiricism i KNOW I EXIST NOW.


I know you cannot prove you exist, and know you can reply and shout to the sky I EXIST AND AM AN HUMAN BEING LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! - for centuries.

- but to no avial, you cannot prove you exist (you might exist, and i affirm you do for my sanities sake (but do you? - you cannot prove it)- or you could me me playing with myself (i do that sometimes - joke-too sexual - poor teste - bad joke/etc)

for my sanity, i assume you exist via my Atheist Faith that i am not God (a God that likes to play with himself/talk to himself/and with limited knowledge and wisdom) - but maybe i am just that!?

thanks for reply - even if i might be thanking myself.
I have a proof that conscious mind exists since change exists. I would share it with you if you are interested. I have another argument for existence of other minds. Let me know so I share them with you.
i thank you for the reply, but you cannot prove that you exist. and i see no point in the exercise, i welcome general discussion, and i welcome discussion with you about all things - i like cats BTW, but the whole Solipsism thing is clear. and its as i state above.

i thank you for your reply - i got dickish with the black panther (maybe dickish with myself? - did not like his flippant reply - and I'm not a Christian to turn the other cheek, i am more Judiac and return the insult - in proportion (but i suspect i returned it a little moreso than proper, i could blaime it on 8 beers but won't) - lol....though i did, lol

again i thank you for your reply and interest in Solipsism (though the latter really only offers an extremly limited Truth, and nothing more).

sadly.
To prove conscious mind I start from the fact that change exists. Consider a change A to B. A and B cannot lay on one point therefore A has to vanishes before B takes place. You however have nothing when A vanishes and you cannot possibly have B out of nothing. Therefore, there should be a conscious mind that experience A and causes B.

Up to here I prove that there is at least one conscious mind since change exists. To argue in favor of two minds, I first bring your attention to the change that you cause, so there is one conscious mind, you. There are however changes that you are not consciously responsible for them. Therefore, there is at least one conscious mind except you.
gaffo
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:10 am
gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:06 am
bahman wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:23 am
I have a proof that conscious mind exists since change exists. I would share it with you if you are interested. I have another argument for existence of other minds. Let me know so I share them with you.
i thank you for the reply, but you cannot prove that you exist. and i see no point in the exercise, i welcome general discussion, and i welcome discussion with you about all things - i like cats BTW, but the whole Solipsism thing is clear. and its as i state above.

i thank you for your reply - i got dickish with the black panther (maybe dickish with myself? - did not like his flippant reply - and I'm not a Christian to turn the other cheek, i am more Judiac and return the insult - in proportion (but i suspect i returned it a little moreso than proper, i could blaime it on 8 beers but won't) - lol....though i did, lol

again i thank you for your reply and interest in Solipsism (though the latter really only offers an extremly limited Truth, and nothing more).

sadly.
To prove conscious mind I start from the fact that change exists. Consider a change A to B. A and B cannot lay on one point therefore A has to vanishes before B takes place. You however have nothing when A vanishes and you cannot possibly have B out of nothing. Therefore, there should be a conscious mind that experience A and causes B.

Up to here I prove that there is at least one conscious mind since change exists. To argue in favor of two minds, I first bring your attention to the change that you cause, so there is one conscious mind, you. There are however changes that you are not consciously responsible for them. Therefore, there is at least one conscious mind except you.
what you say simply is not true per Solipism.

your Change, requires not only the concept of Time (i have that!) - but the proove of it!

and you cannot prove Time exists.

Solipism = I exist (not you), right NOW.

nothing more.

to affirm that there is Change is to affirm that I view the Time as real - not just the concept if it.

and empirically i cannot do so.

it really that simple.

thanks for reply - even if i may be talking to myself, though hope not (BTW Hope cannot be proved empirically either - lol).
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