In what sense is Descartes's dualism wrong?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Gary Childress
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Re: In what sense is Descartes's dualism wrong?

Post by Gary Childress »

I take it you are not human?
Skepdick
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:52 pm Of course, you're not conscious. Where's your on/off switch, Mr. bot.
Same place as yours.

A sharp instrument to the bottom of the base of your skull (just enough to penetrate the medulla oblongata).

It'll permanently switch you off.

The emotional outburst is telling, Garry ;)
Gary Childress
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:55 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:52 pm Of course, you're not conscious. Where's your on/off switch, Mr. bot.
Same place as yours.

A sharp instrument to the bottom of the base of your skull (just enough to penetrate the medulla oblongata).

It'll permanently switch you off.

The emotional outburst is telling, Garry ;)
It would be murder if you kill a human, which I am. It is not murder to kill an unconscious bot. You lose.
Skepdick
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Re: In what sense is Descartes's dualism wrong?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:54 pm I take it you are not human?
Do you even read what I say?
Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:40 pm I am human.
Gary Childress
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Re: In what sense is Descartes's dualism wrong?

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:57 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:54 pm I take it you are not human?
Do you even read what I say?
Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:40 pm I am human.
You're not conscious though, so I suppose we could simply bury you.
Skepdick
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:56 pm It would be murder if you kill a human, which I am. It is not murder to kill an unconscious bot. You lose.
There's just one slight miscalculation on your part.

This unconscious bot has more combat experience than you do. If you tried to kill me, chances are it would be your funeral...
Skepdick
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Re: In what sense is Descartes's dualism wrong?

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:59 pm You're not conscious though, so I suppose we could simply bury you.
How do you plan to accomplish that without me retaliating?

Embarrassing epitaph that would make: Here lies Gary Childress. Died trying to burry an unconscious bot.
Gary Childress
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:56 pm It would be murder if you kill a human, which I am. It is not murder to kill an unconscious bot. You lose.
There's just one slight miscalculation on your part.

This unconscious bot has more combat experience than you do. If you tried to kill me, chances are it would be your funeral...
Or so you would hope. It wouldn't be immoral to do so.
Skepdick
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:01 pm Or so you would hope. It wouldn't be immoral to do so.
Does morality matter to dead people?

I wouldn't think so...
Gary Childress
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:04 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:01 pm Or so you would hope. It wouldn't be immoral to do so.
Does morality matter to dead people?

I wouldn't think so...
[sigh] You really don't understand the ramifications of your beliefs, do you?
Skepdick
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:05 pm You really don't understand the ramifications of your beliefs, do you?
There are none.

Beliefs are lip service. Cheap talk.

Actions have ramifications. Words do not.

That is why I can SAY that I am conscious or unconscious and NOTHING HAPPENS.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary Childress
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:06 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:05 pm You really don't understand the ramifications of your beliefs, do you?
There are none.

Beliefs are lip service.

Actions have ramifications. Words do not.
Words are important too. They involve thought and deliberation which can lead to right action.
Skepdick
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:07 pm Words are important too. They involve thought and deliberation which can lead to right action.
What "right action" is ascribing consciousness to yourself leading you to?

Having simply told you that I am not conscious has made you threaten me.

You don't seem like a very moral entity to me. Consciousness or no consciousness.
Gary Childress
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Re: "How does this vaporous, ethereal thing, the mind, cause a neuron to emit a neurotransmitter that causes the arm to

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:09 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:07 pm Words are important too. They involve thought and deliberation which can lead to right action.
What "right action" is ascribing consciousness to yourself leading you to?

Having simply told you that I am not conscious has made you threaten me.

You don't seem like a very moral entity to me. Consciousness or no consciousness.
Sorry, I shouldn't have done that. I was trying to demonstrate the consequences of believing humans aren't conscious. It's frustrating dealing with you.
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henry quirk
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Re: "Changing my mind is changing matter."

Post by henry quirk »

The only proof I'll accept is you demonstrating how the matter that is you, when changed, leads to your mind (whatever that is) changing.

I'm not askin' for anything more or less than what you demand of Gary.

Here, I'll help...

*demonstrate you exist
*demonstrate you have subjective/internal experiences (that you are a self, a mind [gonna have to define self/mind and prove the existence of such a thing as defined]
*prove that mind and matter are linked (you're gonna have to define matter and prove it exists according to definition)

I could go on but I'm way too lazy.

You get my point, yeah?

You can't prove diddly.

If you say you can: you're a lyin' sack.

The best you can do is what Gary has done, that is: point to this or that as evidence, which, of course, ain't proof.
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