SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
To Know that Consciousness cannot be Known is to Know something about Consciousness.
Consciousness is a concept KNOWN. To know a concept, to know a KNOWN, you first have to BE.
To BE or BEING is just another word for consciousness which is the only knowing there is. Consciousness does not depend on a concept to BE...consciousness is primary and fundamental. On the other hand a concept depends on consciousness to be KNOWN.
Consciousness does not claim or take the position of the concept it knows. A 'person' is a known concept of the formless. The concept known knows nothing of it's existence because it doesn't have an existence apart from the consciousness in which is it KNOWN.
A concept cannot know anything because A CONCEPT is already known by consciousness. There is no separation or split between knower and known..There is no other knower/knowing apart from consciousness itself, you are that.
Consciousness does not need a concept in order to BE - but a concept needs a consciousness to be known, consciousness is the only knowing there is. The only reason consciousness which is formless becomes known to itself is when it artificially takes on the shape of it's own known concept, pretending to be that in the form of ''otherness'' albeit illusory, since the concept is no thing other than the formless appearing as an illusory form.
I cannot make any more clearer than that.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
You must Know something about that unknowable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness cannot be Known?
Consciousness cannot be known by what conciousness knows, aka a concept. Consciousness is the only knowing.
What you are saying might all be true, but it requires a complete surrender of any kind of Logical or Scientific thinking.
I would NEVER suggest surrendering or getting rid of 'logical thinking', I would, however, completely agree with surrendering and getting rid of "scientific thinking".
What I found even better than 'logical thinking' though is 'logical reasoning' instead. This way Truth comes to the forefront so much quicker and easier.
"scientific thinking" can ONLY LOOK AT "theories" to SEE if they can be falsified or verified. There is, however, way to much 'biases' involved in this, which obviously will sway the results one way or the other.
The "scientific method" thus "scientific thinking" has absolutely NO concern on what IS
True, Right, and Correct. "scientific thinking" is based solely off and from assumptions and theories, and continually only makes more assumptions and theories. However, if EVERY assumption/theory, hitherto, which has been verified or falsified, was based off of or from a previous verified or falsified assumption/theory, but along the way just ONE of those assumptions/theories and its findings were WRONG, then the rest of them also can be just as WRONG as well. Add this dilemma to the fact of how strong and influential 'confirmation bias' plays a part, then, as they say, "all hell could break loose".
Now, for example, it is presumed, assumed, or theorized that what is known as a "big band" was the start/beginning of IT ALL, which is a HUGE assumption to even 'begin with', and because of a lot of people BELIEVE that it was 'thee beginning', these people will ONLY LOOK from the perspective that 'it all', "had a beginning", which will then influence how the "read" and "see" so called "data", which is then called "evidence" for "other conclusive" results, outcomes, and/or findings.
Whereas, through just plain 'logical reasoning' to begin with, which means leaving out ALL assumptions and beliefs, then from this Truly OPEN perspective, then what IS
thee actual Truth of things is discovered, learned, SEEN, and understood, and very quickly I will add. For example, one Truth being the Universe NEVER began with a big bang. That bang, which is generally known as a "big" one, is just another part of thee One and only infinite-eternal Universe in action-Creation.
To be able to SEE what IS
actually True, Right, and Correct, then there NEEDS to be NOTHING muddying, blurring, distorting, preventing, blocking, closing, nor stopping a completely OPEN and CLEAR view of ALL things.
Assuming and believing are the main and worst things for NOT being ABLE TO SEE crystal CLEAR.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:56 pm
That might not be such a bad thing. I just can't reboot my Brain yet to think the way you do. But I am still trying to understand that Oneness thing that you are so sure of.
Imagine that Oneness is the Universe, Itself.
Just LOOKING AT the Universe, from a Truly OPEN perspective, and NOT from the text books and taught lessons from school or anywhere else up to this point. How could the Universe 'logically' begin or be confined?
Obviously some thing created EVERY thing, therefore there was ALWAYS some thing existing before another thing was created, and also obvious is even if there was a ring of furthest stars and/or objects, which we could imaginary draw a line from each one to form a completely closed system, the same 'stuff', the emptiness in between those "furthest" stars/objects does not also just stop and form a boundary. It would HAVE TO go on never-ending.
Now, we have, unless of course there is some thing to be questioned and/or disputed here, which I THINK I could very easily and very simply answer and/or overcome, very logically and reasonably, but anyway, now if we have this One infinite-eternal Universe, then what makes this One Universe a Oneness Thing is that it can ONLY be separated in thought. 'Try to' actually physically separate or split in any way possible.
Obviously in thought we can say and "see" that human body over "there", which is separate and split from this human body over "here". Now, of course, the "two" very distinct and separate things, which we have just created in thought, are "separated" and "split" from each "other". But this is just in 'thought' ONLY. If we are to LOOK AT this at what is called the "quantum scale" or LOOK AT this from the "quantum level", then the actual smallest known particle of matter, at any particular moment throughout human history, is separated from another particle of matter by what is known as space or nothing. Every 'thing' is separated by 'no thing' and this 'nothing', which is also goes by the name of 'space' is equally a part of the Universe as other (physical) things are. Now we might be able to see and/or separate physical things from each other but they are ALWAYS joined together by this 'space', which although is known as 'nothing' because it is not a physical thing, it is in and of itself 'some thing'. So, although physical things can be separate from each other the space that surrounds them and is between them can NOT be separated from the physical thing. Therefore, absolutely EVERY thing is joined together in and as One Thing. This One Thing, with is just the Universe, as the Universe is, literally, defined as ALL-THERE-IS, and this One Thing is what Oneness, Itself, IS. Inseparable and unable to be split, in the Truest sense of the words.
This then leads onto revealing and showing other Truths, but for now does this make sense at all, and if not, then I am able to explain in other ways so that it will make sense. Just as long as I am made Aware of what is not understand and/or what needs clarifying and what does not.
Also, to just 'reboot' the brain, 'you' just NEED to become more noticeable and Aware of the the words that 'you' are telling "yourself" and keep an 'Eye out on this' by just keep 'watching' what 'you' say. For example, above you wrote, "I just can't reboot my Brain "yet" ". This is only because you do not "yet" know how to. Once 'you' learn this very simple "trick" of how to do it, then 'you' will NEVER have to say those same words to "yourself".
If 'you' are LOOKING at things, without absolutely ANY assumption nor belief of what is true, right, nor correct of ANY thing, then HOW are 'you' SEEING things?
Are 'you' able to LOOK AT any thing as though it is right or wrong, true or false, or correct or incorrect, or are you just SEEING things for how they Really and Truly ARE?
If 'you' can ONLY SEE things for how they Truly ARE, then this is HOW discovering, learning, understanding, and SEEING the actual Truth of things can be done almost immediately.
This leads onto what Consciousness actually IS. Consciousness is the ability to SEE and KNOW ALL things for what 'they' Truly ARE, 'instantly'. Having this ability comes from a Truly OPEN Mind, which when FULLY discovered and understood what comes with this is the ALREADY KNOWING of ALL meaningful Answers in Life. Consciousness is BE-ing Aware of ALL things at ALL times, and KNOWING ALL-OF-THIS.
Consciousness is just the Oneness of Life, Itself, Self-actuated into KNOWING that It, Itself, is just God, Itself, in another name.
Consciousness has just NEEDED a species with enough intelligence for Itself to emerge into and BE-come Self-realize and to BE Its True Self.