Unlike the mind and body the egg and chicken can actually be separated from each other and the egg came before the chicken.
But the egg or the chicken can't know they are separate from each other. The egg and chicken can't even know that they exist. So what is it that knows this conceptual separation? and is this apparent separation illusory phenomena?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Unlike the mind and body the egg and chicken can actually be separated from each other and the egg came before the chicken
But the egg or the chicken cannot know they are separate from each other . The egg and chickem cannot even know that they exist .
They do not have to know that they are separate from each other because separation can just be physical
It is therefore not necessary to have knowledge of separation to actually be separate from something else
Now knowledge of separation is of course possible but that is entirely incidental to the separation as such
Otherwise every single physical thing separated from some other physical thing would have to be self aware
Does a rock know that it is separate from other rocks - no because it is just a rock so it has no brain or mind
But it is still separate from the other rocks even though it does not know it is just like it knows nothing else
surreptitious57 wrote:
Unlike the mind and body the egg and chicken can actually be separated from each other and the egg came before the chicken
But the egg or the chicken cannot know they are separate from each other . The egg and chickem cannot even know that they exist .
They do not have to know that they are separate from each other because separation can just be physical
It is therefore not necessary to have knowledge of separation to actually be separate from something else
So the knowledge of the separation is an illusion, in that the separation is not really there?
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:26 am
Does a rock know that it is separate from other rocks - no because it is just a rock so it has no brain or mind
But it is still separate from the other rocks even though it does not know it is just like it knows nothing else
But how does a brain which is also made of matter like the rock know the concept of separation?
Dontaskme wrote:
So here you are saying it is the WORD that knows the experience of being a self aware entity....is that what you mean? ...
Nope, I'm saying the word "mind" is what we use to refer to the experience of being a body with self-awareness or self-consciousness, specifically the ability to reason.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:19 am
Mind is a function of the brain and the brain is part of the body . So therefore neither could have come first because both are connected to each
other . The mind knows it is in the body but is how ever classed as being separate from it . This is because of the dichotomy between the mental and the physical . I think this is false and that the mental is just the physical albeit on a more subtle level for everything is ultimately connected to everything else either directly or indirectly . True separation does not actually exist in physical reality
I agree with how you've explained this.
It's like what came first the chicken or the egg...and the answer is neither come first in that they both arise together in the same instant, namely NOW
.
But the Answer to what actually came first is very easy and very simple to work out.
Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:38 am
Nope, I'm saying the word "mind" is how we refer to the experience of being a self-aware or self-conscious body, specifically the experience of being a reasoning intellect.
So here you are saying it is the WORD that knows the experience of being a self aware entity....is that what you mean?
I'll answer all your other responses once we've sorted this one out first.
.
Why are some lucky to get challenged and asked clarifying questions like this but I get neither?
Unlike the mind and body the egg and chicken can actually be separated from each other and the egg came before the chicken.
But the egg or the chicken can't know they are separate from each other. The egg and chicken can't even know that they exist. So what is it that knows this conceptual separation? and is this apparent separation illusory phenomena?
.
The thing that KNOWS the conceptual separation, HOW the conceptual separation comes about, WHY the conceptual separation occurs, WHEN the conceptual separation happens, and WHAT causes a conceptual separation IS thee Mind.
What IS this apparent separation illusory phenomena IS 'thoughts' themselves distorting what IS actually Real and True.
Last edited by Age on Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dontaskme wrote:
So here you are saying it is the WORD that knows the experience of being a self aware entity....is that what you mean? ...
Nope, I'm saying the word "mind" is what we use to refer to the experience of being a body with self-awareness or self-consciousness, specifically the ability to reason.
So we are using a WORD when referring to the experience of being a body..we use a WORD to inform us that we are self-aware?
This is bascially what you are saying Arising_uk....is that correct?
Unlike the mind and body the egg and chicken can actually be separated from each other and the egg came before the chicken.
But the egg or the chicken can't know they are separate from each other. The egg and chicken can't even know that they exist. So what is it that knows this conceptual separation? and is this apparent separation illusory phenomena?
.
The thing that KNOWS the conceptual separation, HOW the conceptual separation comes about, WHY the conceptual separation occurs, WHEN the conceptual separation happens, and WHAT causes a conceptual separation IS thee Mind.
What IS this apparent separation illusory phenomena IS 'thoughts' themselves distorting what IS actually Real and True.
Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:38 am
Nope, I'm saying the word "mind" is how we refer to the experience of being a self-aware or self-conscious body, specifically the experience of being a reasoning intellect.
So here you are saying it is the WORD that knows the experience of being a self aware entity....is that what you mean?
I'll answer all your other responses once we've sorted this one out first.
.
Why are some lucky to get challenged and asked clarifying questions like this but I get neither?
Because when you AGE are given the clarification you ask for, it's like if that clarification does not meet with your own personal approval, you will then ask for more clarification until it does, and this is what frustrates other people about how you personally communicate with others, your communication style is very often narcissistically one sided. People just haven't got the time or energy to play that game. No offense. Sometimes, people just instantly know what the other person means or is talking about without ever having to question it...it's called resonance and a silent mutual understanding...the point is, we all have the truth within us, we know it because we are it.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:19 am
Mind is a function of the brain and the brain is part of the body . So therefore neither could have come first because both are connected to each
other . The mind knows it is in the body but is how ever classed as being separate from it . This is because of the dichotomy between the mental and the physical . I think this is false and that the mental is just the physical albeit on a more subtle level for everything is ultimately connected to everything else either directly or indirectly . True separation does not actually exist in physical reality
I agree with how you've explained this.
It's like what came first the chicken or the egg...and the answer is neither come first in that they both arise together in the same instant, namely NOW
.
But the Answer to what actually came first is very easy and very simple to work out.
Yes I know that. And so once the answer to a question is worked out, there is no more need to keep flogging like a dead horse what has already been worked out. It's wise to just leave it alone.
But the egg or the chicken can't know they are separate from each other. The egg and chicken can't even know that they exist. So what is it that knows this conceptual separation? and is this apparent separation illusory phenomena?
.
The thing that KNOWS the conceptual separation, HOW the conceptual separation comes about, WHY the conceptual separation occurs, WHEN the conceptual separation happens, and WHAT causes a conceptual separation IS thee Mind.
What IS this apparent separation illusory phenomena IS 'thoughts' themselves distorting what IS actually Real and True.
Things don't know..things are KNOWN by no thing.
.
So, what is the 'no thing' that KNOWS?
And, if 'you' KNOW this, then does that mean that 'you' are 'no thing'?
And, how is it POSSIBLE that 'no thing' KNOWS but 'things' can NOT know?
Dontaskme wrote:
So we are using a WORD when referring to the experience of being a body..we use a WORD to inform us that we are self-aware?
This is bascially what you are saying Arising_uk....is that correct?
.
Nope, we use language to communicate with each other. In the case of the word "mind" it is the word we use to express our experience of being a self-aware or self-conscious body. Now it is a word, like all words, open to various interpretations, as such there are various opinions as to what "mind" actually refers to in the nuance, is it the "mind" that thinks with the internal voice? Is it the "mind" that 'thinks' in thoughts, i.e. the sequenced complex of representations available to us from perception and retrieved by memory? Questions like this are what should be clarified when there are philosophical discussions about "mind" and they are pretty much the questions I've often asked you but with very little response.
