Do we need consciousness?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Zelebg
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Zelebg »

commonsense wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm We need consciousness to enjoy living a good life.
Also to suffer a bad life, if not more.
commonsense
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by commonsense »

Zelebg wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 am
commonsense wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm We need consciousness to enjoy living a good life.
Also to suffer a bad life, if not more.
So true, sadly.
Zelebg
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Zelebg »

Consciousness is kind of a loom interlacing all the cognitive, sensory and emotional threads and vawing them into the memory as a single unified tapestry of experiences. Or antenna, probably a better example since it can both encode and decode. But do humans need an antenna? Of course! So shapeshifting lizard alien overlords can play us with a remote control, or god maybe, or maybe our own ghosts... well, whoever has the remote.
Atla
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Atla »

roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:04 pm I'm saying that I experience this world as I would a movie.
Yes it's called depersonalization-derealization disorder, and you think it makes you a role model.
commonsense
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by commonsense »

Atla wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:13 pm
roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:04 pm I'm saying that I experience this world as I would a movie.
Yes it's called depersonalization-derealization disorder, and you think it makes you a role model.
I suspect that roydop watches a movie differently than you.

Some people immerse themselves in artistic media, by means of a willing suspension of disbelief and by imagination that what is experienced is reality.

That’s also one way to experience the world aside from movies.
Atla
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Atla »

commonsense wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:25 pm
Atla wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:13 pm
roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:04 pm I'm saying that I experience this world as I would a movie.
Yes it's called depersonalization-derealization disorder, and you think it makes you a role model.
I suspect that roydop watches a movie differently than you.

Some people immerse themselves in artistic media, by means of a willing suspension of disbelief and by imagination that what is experienced is reality.

That’s also one way to experience the world aside from movies.
Yes but that has nothing to do with what he means. He's onto the "true self", but misunderstands it.
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bahman
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:42 pm There are two sorts of minds: 1) Conscious and 2) Unconscious. The question is whether we even need conscious mind when the very important task like decision is made by unconscious mind (according to Libet's experiment).
The question is do we need consciousness, but of primary importance is to know for what purpose, or goal, are we asking.

We do not need consciousness to survive.

It doesn’t take consciousness to learn that food relieves hunger, nor that a coconut tree contains food.

It doesn’t take consciousness to withdraw from a painful stimulus, to breathe, circulate blood, eliminate waste or procreate.

We need consciousness to enjoy living a good life.

Merely to survive falls short of our capabilities. Without consciousness we could not read a novel, paint a picture or compose a symphony.

We need consciousness to appreciate art, emotions, language and qualia in general.
I agree with what you said but I can argue that appreciating life, in general, does not affect unconscious mind, therefore, it does not affect our decision. So, consciousness is irrelevant. We simply can live without consciousness.
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bahman
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by bahman »

Zelebg wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:31 am Consciousness is kind of a loom interlacing all the cognitive, sensory and emotional threads and vawing them into the memory as a single unified tapestry of experiences. Or antenna, probably a better example since it can both encode and decode. But do humans need an antenna? Of course! So shapeshifting lizard alien overlords can play us with a remote control, or god maybe, or maybe our own ghosts... well, whoever has the remote.
How experience can be stored in unconscious mind?
commonsense
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:46 pm
commonsense wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:42 pm There are two sorts of minds: 1) Conscious and 2) Unconscious. The question is whether we even need conscious mind when the very important task like decision is made by unconscious mind (according to Libet's experiment).
The question is do we need consciousness, but of primary importance is to know for what purpose, or goal, are we asking.

We do not need consciousness to survive.

It doesn’t take consciousness to learn that food relieves hunger, nor that a coconut tree contains food.

It doesn’t take consciousness to withdraw from a painful stimulus, to breathe, circulate blood, eliminate waste or procreate.

We need consciousness to enjoy living a good life.

Merely to survive falls short of our capabilities. Without consciousness we could not read a novel, paint a picture or compose a symphony.

We need consciousness to appreciate art, emotions, language and qualia in general.
I agree with what you said but I can argue that appreciating life, in general, does not affect unconscious mind, therefore, it does not affect our decision. So, consciousness is irrelevant. We simply can live without consciousness.
Yes, that is my conclusion as well.
roydop
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by roydop »

Atla wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:13 pm
roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:04 pm I'm saying that I experience this world as I would a movie.
Yes it's called depersonalization-derealization disorder, and you think it makes you a role model.
No, my life is a role model for not having any problems. Do you understand what I'm relating? I have next to no stress, no worries, no suffering.

Shit, I must be crazy, eh? Not having any problems and all.
Atla
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Atla »

roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:33 pm
Atla wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:13 pm
roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:04 pm I'm saying that I experience this world as I would a movie.
Yes it's called depersonalization-derealization disorder, and you think it makes you a role model.
No, my life is a role model for not having any problems. Do you understand what I'm relating? I have next to no stress, no worries, no suffering.

Shit, I must be crazy, eh? Not having any problems and all.
You are just another narcissistic idiot who had a false awakening. Dime a dozen.
Our true self isn't in control either, that's another illusion. I'm pretty sure I already told you this.
Zelebg
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Zelebg »

bahman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:50 pm How experience can be stored in unconscious mind?
Unconscious mind or subconsciousness is just a bio-electro-mechanical storage for data and automatic functions like heart pumping or reflex responses. I think with neural networks we can completely if not emulate it, then simulate it.

Keeping in mind what I've said earlier, experience is stored into unconscious mind by consciousness integrating and encoding cognition, emotion and sensation into "learning input feed" compatible for use with neural network, which then affects creation, destruction, weakening, or strengthening of neural connections between neural nodes, just like AI. How all that makes sense inside the network and what is really going on in there, we don't really know, but it's something a PC or a worm can do if learning input feed is provided by humans in the case of AI, or the network comes already preconfigured by DNA in the case of a worm.
roydop
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by roydop »

Atla wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:50 pm
roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:33 pm
Atla wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:13 pm
Yes it's called depersonalization-derealization disorder, and you think it makes you a role model.
No, my life is a role model for not having any problems. Do you understand what I'm relating? I have next to no stress, no worries, no suffering.

Shit, I must be crazy, eh? Not having any problems and all.
You are just another narcissistic idiot who had a false awakening. Dime a dozen.
Our true self isn't in control either, that's another illusion. I'm pretty sure I already told you this.
You're fun!
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Dontaskme
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:39 pm So, you can read my thoughts? I mean, if you can achieve a state of mind which you have universal consciousness then you are aware of everything including my thoughts.
You cannot even read your own thoughts. Because the reader is one with itself. In other words, many many different thoughts arise, but there is only one reader reading thoughts no one is thinking. The one aware of thoughts is the same one in every one, there is only that one awareness...apparently appearing as the many awarenesses.
Notice as aware beings we all see the same things, we can all see the same things in that we have arms and legs, and live in houses etc..the objects we see are the thoughts known, projected as a world in front of our eyes. Every person has the same seeing ability, and that's who you are. You are the seer, not the thing seen. For example: when you look at your hand, what is looking at your hand is the same awareness that another person uses to look at their hand. The hand in and of itself doesn't exist apart from the one knowing it, the hand has no idea it exists or what it is, the hand is only known as and through the seer awareness that the hand is appearing in. Awareness is not in the hand....the hand is a projection appearing on the screen of awareness.

Thoughts are spontaneously arising in awareness. Thoughts trigger other thoughts to appear, there is no thinker making thoughts happen, there is no actual space where you can become conscious you are making a thought happen, simply because there is no one making thoughts happen. There is awareness of thought (which are just concepts known by awareness) but awareness is not the thought it is aware of because awareness is just the empty screen on which the thought is projected, and the thought too being inseparable from the empty awareness is just an empty image of the imageless awareness appearing as if it is real like a hologram.

Thought needs awareness to be known, but awareness does not need thought to BE

You are awareness, you cannot know awareness, you can only BE awareness...and it is this awareness that is knowing each and every thought as and when thought arises in awareness. Both thought and awareness have to be present in the exact same instant. Knower and known are ONE - you are that, there is no you because there is no other than you. And that's the same for every one. When you understand the concept of ONE...you will see there is no other one when you refer to others.


Awareness is the projection screen on which all thoughts manifest as things known. And since awareness is the only one reality, there is no other reader reading thought but this one...which is just another term for no one.

This will not make sense to you unless you have had a full blown awakening.

.
surreptitious57
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Re: Do we need consciousness?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Everything is connected to everything else as reality is eternally connected
Then if reality is awareness and thought then they are obviously connected

Thought needs awareness to be known but awareness does not need thought to BE

For me it is more that minds arise within Existence but Existence does not need minds to be
As we are a part of reality which is simply that which is and so we are a part of it right now

We are a part of the eternal NOW but will not always be a part of it but the eternal NOW however will always be
So the eternal NOW is always in a constant state of change but its existence is the only thing that does not change
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