RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:29 am
Dontaskme's statement, whether intentional or not, gives an entirely different meaning to the word, "conceive." Conceiving, as Steve used it and any honest person would understand it, does not mean, "giving birth to," or "creating" as Dontaskme implies, it simply means you cannot have a thought about anything without a concept that identifies it, or a word which is the symbol for the concept. It is pretty difficult to think or talk about anything without ever identifying it.
People read into knowledge in their own unique way that is understandable to them.
Many times I have read symbolic words here at the forum not having any idea what is being pointed to.
In my opinion we each understand reality according to our own unique take on it that is directly experiential to us only. If others resonate then there can be an exchange of mutual understandings ..more often though there can be a lost in translation scenario triggering the demand to ask clarifying questions to the other.
Any honest person would understand that 'concepts' do not identify a 'thought'' ...any 'thought' is the 'concept' in the exact same instance..identity is formed of the formless ..identity IS NOT formed from the form aka a concept known... the known cannot know anything, for what is known is sourced in the only knowing there is which is consciousness.
A word symbolised is not the 'thing' identifying the 'thought' ..the symbol is the 'thought' in the exact same instance...else the symbol could not be known...a concept known is instantaneously one with consciousness.
A concept is being conceived every time it is KNOWN.....known instantly as knowledge one with the knowing.
There is no 'you' having a 'thought'...there is no 'you' who is conscious of a 'thought'. The 'you' is a 'conceptual thought' known only by Consciousness. The concept of 'you' doesn't know or conceive or understand anything, a concept is KNOWN aka conceived BY CONSCIOUSNESS. . and the conceived KNOWN cannot know anything because what is KNOWN cannot be KNOWN because every 'thought' is invisible, it is empty to the core.
So how to go about describing a concept KNOWN which is empty at it's core...? would go something like this...Any description of a doughnut hole has to be about the doughnut... meaning both consciousness and the known conceptual contents of consciousness are needed to describe the other...which are only ever one in the same instant...the known concepts of EMPTY consciousness IS consciousness knowing itself as an image of the imageless. All that is happening is emptiness describing it's own emptiness using concepts...in other words, filling nothing up with something...which in essence is the same nothing.
Knowledge thereof informs the illusory nature of reality....''Einstein is quoted as saying..'' life is a dream albeit a persistent one.''
Without 'thought' consciousness has no concept of itself, 'thought' gives illusory birth to consciousness in this conception/ as conceived...as there is no 'thought' possible without a consciousness aware and knowing the 'thought' instantly as and when it arises.
Consciousness is the unborn, becoming born as it identifies with 'thought' albeit illusory, since the unborn cannot be born except in this artificial conception..aka knowledge.
Although 'thought' is sourced within consciousness and known only by consciousness means that all concepts point to the illusory nature of reality meaning that any concept known does not know anything in the same context no concept can conceive itself because it doesn't exist except an imagined thing..so the words 'concept' aka 'conception' aka 'conceive' are imagination ..no thing has ever been born, concepts exist and are known as fictional knowledge only...as conceived artificially as and through the mind of 'thought' ..ultimately there is no thing conceiving any thing..things are only imagined as they are artificially conceived aka KNOWN by no thing..aka consciousness.
Conceiving a 'thought' is 'knowing' the 'thought'..aka having a concept of something is having knowledge of something...but it's not the concept itself that has the knowledge of itself. No concept has ever been seen, no concept has knowledge of itself, all concepts are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness which also has no knowledge of itself except in this artificial conception...as conceived via 'thought'