Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Walker
Posts: 7019
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Walker » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:08 pm

Only the physical exists.
Thoughts exist.
Therefore, thoughts are physical.
Not all physicality is the same.
Physicality varies from the gross, to the subtle.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:13 pm

Walker wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:08 pm
Only the physical exists.
Thoughts exist.
Therefore, thoughts are physical.
Not all physicality is the same.
Physicality varies from the gross, to the subtle.
This works only if the first statement is true. The first statement is pure Speculation.

Walker
Posts: 7019
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Walker » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:09 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:13 pm
Walker wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:08 pm
Only the physical exists.
Thoughts exist.
Therefore, thoughts are physical.
Not all physicality is the same.
Physicality varies from the gross, to the subtle.
This works only if the first statement is true. The first statement is pure Speculation.
Just as a tree exists independent of any one particular observer of the physical tree, so does a thought exist independent of any one particular observer of the physical thought. The proof is that two thinkers, independent of one another and without knowledge of one another, can observe the same thought. Thus, thoughts are discovered by perception and not created by perception, just as a mountain is discovered by perception and not created by perception.

A building simultaneously exists within different realms of physicality. The building can be bricks and mortar, it can be a blueprint, it can be a verbal description, or it can be a thought. Conditions determine the form. The first physical form of the building is thought, and this form appears if conditions are conducive to the appearance of the thought. If conditions are conducive then the same building may also exist in other forms. For example, Gehry’s buildings could only exist as physically subtle thought-forms until conditions allowed for the appearance of physically grosser forms of the same building.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:29 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:04 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 am
Words may be crap but it is all we have. We can only use the tools that are available.
Exactly, words are the story we tell ourselves, that no one ever wrote that everyone reads.
Whereas, Physicalists have Insane Denial of Conscious Experience I think it would be fair to say that Spiritualists have Insane Denial of Physical Existence. With the Physicalists everything is Physical and with the Spiritualists everything is Consciousness.
Well I don’t know where you get the idea that spiritualists are in denial of physical existence, that’s just not true.
Physical existence is a concept known by consciousness that cannot be denied, refuted or negated. I sometimes think you overthink things too much perhaps...but then that’s what the mind does, sometimes what is so simple can be very complicated and what is seen as complicated is actually very simple.

.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:36 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:29 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:04 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am

Exactly, words are the story we tell ourselves, that no one ever wrote that everyone reads.
Whereas, Physicalists have Insane Denial of Conscious Experience I think it would be fair to say that Spiritualists have Insane Denial of Physical Existence. With the Physicalists everything is Physical and with the Spiritualists everything is Consciousness.
Well I don’t know where you get the idea that spiritualists are in denial of physical existence, that’s just not true.
Physical existence is a concept known by consciousness that cannot be denied, refuted or negated. I sometimes think you overthink things too much perhaps...but then that’s what the mind does, sometimes what is so simple can be very complicated and what is seen as complicated is actually very simple.

.
So then you believe that there is a separate Physical Reality and a separate Conscious Reality. That's Dualism.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:46 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:36 pm
So then you believe that there is a separate Physical Reality and a separate Conscious Reality. That's Dualism.

Only duality is known as an ism, the known is sourced in nonduality which is not an ism because the known know nothing.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:37 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:46 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:36 pm
So then you believe that there is a separate Physical Reality and a separate Conscious Reality. That's Dualism.

Only duality is known as an ism, the known is sourced in nonduality which is not an ism because the known know nothing.
You are wrapping yourself in Semantical arguments, or you are just creating Poetical phrases that sound good to the ear but have no actual meaning.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:37 pm
You are wrapping yourself in Semantical arguments, or you are just creating Poetical phrases that sound good to the ear but have no actual meaning.
I'm doing nothing more than discussing the subject topic of Consciousness in the only way I know how, just as it comes spontaneously from the void itself.

.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:34 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:37 pm
You are wrapping yourself in Semantical arguments, or you are just creating Poetical phrases that sound good to the ear but have no actual meaning.
I'm doing nothing more than discussing the subject topic of Consciousness in the only way I know how, just as it comes spontaneously from the void itself.

.
Shouldn't have said without meaning. It must make sense to you. I should have said that I can't find the meaning.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:59 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:34 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:37 pm
You are wrapping yourself in Semantical arguments, or you are just creating Poetical phrases that sound good to the ear but have no actual meaning.
I'm doing nothing more than discussing the subject topic of Consciousness in the only way I know how, just as it comes spontaneously from the void itself.

.
Shouldn't have said without meaning. It must make sense to you. I should have said that I can't find the meaning.
How can meaning be known at all without a knower making meaning known?

The claim (I know what THAT means) means You are THAT

I AM THAT and YOU are too.

You can only make your own meaning, what meaning means to you. Every other persons meaning is taken.

.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:45 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:59 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:34 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 am


I'm doing nothing more than discussing the subject topic of Consciousness in the only way I know how, just as it comes spontaneously from the void itself.

.
Shouldn't have said without meaning. It must make sense to you. I should have said that I can't find the meaning.
How can meaning be known at all without a knower making meaning known?

The claim (I know what THAT means) means You are THAT

I AM THAT and YOU are too.

You can only make your own meaning, what meaning means to you. Every other persons meaning is taken.

.
I know what a Red Apple is but I am not a Red Apple.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:57 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:45 pm
I know what a Red Apple is but I am not a Red Apple.
The Red Apple is known, it's a concept known by I - not seen by I ...no Red Apple has ever been seen.

Here is 'seeing'...no idea 'what' it is, or 'how' it is...here it appears 'void'...for this 'seeing' cannot see itself...

Here 'seeing' is seen in this glorious profusion of colours ...not separate from this 'seeing'...no idea 'what' 'colour' is, or 'how' it is.

I cannot experience myself as a Red Apple. I am only the knowing Awareness the seeing of the concept Red Apple. The Red Apple is an image within my imageless I, a known concept by I

'Seeing' appears as a concept...only as it is thought about...without thought, without labelling it...'seeing' simply 'is' beyond doubt or error.

.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:51 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:57 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:45 pm
I know what a Red Apple is but I am not a Red Apple.
The Red Apple is known, it's a concept known by I - not seen by I ...no Red Apple has ever been seen.

Here is 'seeing'...no idea 'what' it is, or 'how' it is...here it appears 'void'...for this 'seeing' cannot see itself...

Here 'seeing' is seen in this glorious profusion of colours ...not separate from this 'seeing'...no idea 'what' 'colour' is, or 'how' it is.

I cannot experience myself as a Red Apple. I am only the knowing Awareness the seeing of the concept Red Apple. The Red Apple is an image within my imageless I, a known concept by I

'Seeing' appears as a concept...only as it is thought about...without thought, without labelling it...'seeing' simply 'is' beyond doubt or error.

.
I still am not clear: Do you think the Red Apple actually exists in the Physical Universe? Or do you think the Red Apple is only in your Mind?

Skepdick
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:11 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:51 pm
I still am not clear: Do you think the Red Apple actually exists in the Physical Universe? Or do you think the Red Apple is only in your Mind?
Your questions are unclear. You are using the word "exists" in multiple senses. Do you think your mind actually exists in the Physical universe?

SteveKlinko
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:31 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:11 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:51 pm
I still am not clear: Do you think the Red Apple actually exists in the Physical Universe? Or do you think the Red Apple is only in your Mind?
Your questions are unclear. You are using the word "exists" in multiple senses. Do you think your mind actually exists in the Physical universe?
Your unclarity about my question is unclear to me. You say I used the work Exists in two different contexts when in fact I only used the word Exists one time.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest