Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:07 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:39 am
I do understand that the Redness is part of what I am. It has to be because it happens somewhere in the Brain/Mind process. I can say I am the Redness. I am all Colors. I am Light (Conscious Light not Electromagnetic Light) in general. I have understood that for a long time. But realizing that does not Explain Redness. It just offloads the question to: What am I if I am that Redness.
The experience of Red is just like every other experience. All experiences are concepts known. The problem is, it's not known what knows a concept, for to know the knower of a concept, you'd have to conceptualise the knower.. turning the knower into an object known..thus creating another problem because known concepts (objects ) don't know anything.

To know anything is to conceptualise the idea into existence, it is to make an idea known,and so the only thing known about existence is, as, and through a conceptual word that doesn't know anything. Knowledge doesn't know anything about the KNOWER... in the same context a machine can know nothing of it's maker...therefore, knowledge is nothing but a string of construed fictional concepts arising from the nothingness of the silent void of consciousness itself...and it is those words that magically convert the pure not-knowingness of I AM into knowing I AM as concieved.

Do you see the dilemma? and that is why you will continue to keep asking yourself the same question right up until the day you die. In other words the answer will continue to evade you forever because there is no beginning nor end to you that you can possibly know.

The only 'YOU' in existence is the 'you' that you concieve yourself to be, via a word, aka a concept known, as you conceive yourself to be as and through the word itself.. You can only know yourself as a concept known...and never as the actual knower....for to know yourself as the knower you would have to split yourself in two..into the knower and the known.


There is no split there, there is no gap there, for this is just more concepts...aka dreamscape upon the nothingness that is the screen of conscious awareness.






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You always in effect say that we can not know what we are. Maybe it is true that the currently Evolved We will not be able to understand the Conscious Self. Maybe a super Evolved We will eventually exist, maybe thousands or even millions of years from now, that will Understand. But I'm still not convinced that there are things that even the current We can not know.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:30 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:38 pm
You always in effect say that we can not know what we are. Maybe it is true that the currently Evolved We will not be able to understand the Conscious Self. Maybe a super Evolved We will eventually exist, maybe thousands or even millions of years from now, that will Understand. But I'm still not convinced that there are things that even the current We can not know.
Thousands or even millions of years from now, will be the same now that is now.

Now is the nondual timeless eternal present that never changes, it's the only place where things happen.
And since no thing has any knowledge of itself, no thing is actually happening. Knowledge only serves to inform the illusory nature of reality.

Time and space and knowledge are the dual aspect of the eternal, the dream of separation, where the mind cuts reality in two. And that is the nature of Non-duality. Non-duality is duality.

We cannot know what we are ,we can only know we are. We have no knowledge of what or why we are, except what we think we are, which is imagination.

Imagined things have no knowledge of the imagined thing imagined because they don't actually exist in and of themselves apart form their creator that cannot be known...since reality is Acausal... and so for the imagined character, it has no knowledge of itself existing, in the same context as a character in a nightly dream has no knowledge of it's existence.

So how to explain SOURCE...the assumed original knower of how the conscious experience happens. How do we explain what we are trying to explain without the mind for One's projection screen, where would the world/universe be located?

All we've got to work with are our words. Which are empty of substance.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:54 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:30 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:38 pm
You always in effect say that we can not know what we are. Maybe it is true that the currently Evolved We will not be able to understand the Conscious Self. Maybe a super Evolved We will eventually exist, maybe thousands or even millions of years from now, that will Understand. But I'm still not convinced that there are things that even the current We can not know.
Thousands or even millions of years from now, will be the same now that is now.

Now is the nondual timeless eternal present that never changes, it's the only place where things happen.
And since no thing has any knowledge of itself, no thing is actually happening. Knowledge only serves to inform the illusory nature of reality.

Time and space and knowledge are the dual aspect of the eternal, the dream of separation, where the mind cuts reality in two. And that is the nature of Non-duality. Non-duality is duality.

We cannot know what we are ,we can only know we are. We have no knowledge of what or why we are, except what we think we are, which is imagination.

Imagined things have no knowledge of the imagined thing imagined because they don't actually exist in and of themselves apart form their creator that cannot be known...since reality is Acausal... and so for the imagined character, it has no knowledge of itself existing, in the same context as a character in a nightly dream has no knowledge of it's existence.

So how to explain SOURCE...the assumed original knower of how the conscious experience happens. How do we explain what we are trying to explain without the mind for One's projection screen, where would the world/universe be located?

All we've got to work with are our words. Which are empty of substance.

.
We may be stuck in the eternal Now but we can think about past now's and future Now's. We know that things will be different in the future Now's that we will be traveling through.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:16 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:54 am
We may be stuck in the eternal Now but we can think about past now's and future Now's. We know that things will be different in the future Now's that we will be traveling through.
Experiences are all different, but the now in which they are experienced never changes.

Thinking of past and future can only happen now, as a projection occuring here now that never moves, since a projection is inseparable from it's projector.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:28 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:16 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:54 am
We may be stuck in the eternal Now but we can think about past now's and future Now's. We know that things will be different in the future Now's that we will be traveling through.
Experiences are all different, but the now in which they are experienced never changes.

Thinking of past and future can only happen now, as a projection occuring here now that never moves, since a projection is inseparable from it's projector.

.
Maybe true. But how is it that Neural Activity and Conscious Activity are not different Categories of Phenomena?

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:36 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:28 pm
Maybe true. But how is it that Neural Activity and Conscious Activity are not different Categories of Phenomena?
Because all known activity has one source...and that is the knower.





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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:46 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:36 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:28 pm
Maybe true. But how is it that Neural Activity and Conscious Activity are not different Categories of Phenomena?
Because all known activity has one source...and that is the knower.





.
But even if there is only one Source there are still different Categories of Conscious Experience.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:39 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:46 pm
But even if there is only one Source there are still different Categories of Conscious Experience.
That the one source is having yes. From source to source an endless spring.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:39 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:46 pm
But even if there is only one Source there are still different Categories of Conscious Experience.
That the one source is having yes. From source to source an endless spring.

.
But if there is only one Source there can be no Source to Source anything.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:43 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:39 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:46 pm
But even if there is only one Source there are still different Categories of Conscious Experience.
That the one source is having yes. From source to source an endless spring.

.
But if there is only one Source there can be no Source to Source anything.
That's right, no source is the source of everything.

And while all things can be negated, the source of all things which is everything cannot be negated, because everything is nothing, and nothing is everything.

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SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:26 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:43 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:39 pm


That the one source is having yes. From source to source an endless spring.

.
But if there is only one Source there can be no Source to Source anything.
That's right, no source is the source of everything.

And while all things can be negated, the source of all things which is everything cannot be negated, because everything is nothing, and nothing is everything.

.
If I could understand your Oneness concept will what you have just said make Sense or is this Poetry?

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:57 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:26 pm
If I could understand your Oneness concept will what you have just said make Sense or is this Poetry?
When Oneness stops trying to understand itself only then does Oneness truly reveal it's real nature to itself, which is to reveal that no understanding was necessary.

Words are crap, but what the heck, Divine crap.

No word can define 'Oneness', or every word defines 'Oneness'. You can't polish a turd using turd word.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:57 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:26 pm
If I could understand your Oneness concept will what you have just said make Sense or is this Poetry?
When Oneness stops trying to understand itself only then does Oneness truly reveal it's real nature to itself, which is to reveal that no understanding was necessary.

Words are crap, but what the heck, Divine crap.

No word can define 'Oneness', or every word defines 'Oneness'. You can't polish a turd using turd word.

.
Words may be crap but it is all we have. We can only use the tools that are available.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 am
Words may be crap but it is all we have. We can only use the tools that are available.
Exactly, words are the story we tell ourselves, that no one ever wrote that everyone reads.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:04 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 am
Words may be crap but it is all we have. We can only use the tools that are available.
Exactly, words are the story we tell ourselves, that no one ever wrote that everyone reads.
Whereas, Physicalists have Insane Denial of Conscious Experience I think it would be fair to say that Spiritualists have Insane Denial of Physical Existence. With the Physicalists everything is Physical and with the Spiritualists everything is Consciousness.

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