Do humans have a soul?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Harbal
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Re: Re:

Post by Harbal » Sat May 04, 2019 2:46 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:43 pm
A body cannot speak without one.
Is that just an opinion or do you have some sort of evidence to support your assertion?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Re:

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 2:52 pm

Harbal wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:46 pm
Is that just an opinion or do you have some sort of evidence to support your assertion?
Go to the morgue. Poke everybody there with a stick. Only the living ones will say anything.

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Harbal
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Re: Re:

Post by Harbal » Sat May 04, 2019 2:56 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:52 pm
Only the living ones will say anything.
That is no proof of them having a soul.

Belinda
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Belinda » Sat May 04, 2019 2:58 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:05 am
Belinda wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:47 pm
There is no such body part as a soul.
If you're just a body, there's nobody there to talk to.

Well it would not reply unless it was a robotic body made of plastic and stuff, and then it would have to have been programmed by a brain-mind.

Belinda
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Belinda » Sat May 04, 2019 3:06 pm

Immanuel Can:
Your present problem, as with all mind-soul dismissers, is that you imagine that the material exhausts the real. Ironically, to do so, you have to use the mind.

Minds and bodies (including brains)are twin aspects of the Real. Note the capital letter; I am happy to conflate the Real with God, although I'd rather conflate The Real with Nature.

It has been said that the personal God is Platonism for the masses. I'll google that in a second.

Nietzsche

By the way, for all we can ever know there might be infinite other aspects of God/ The Real/ Nature ,besides mind and body

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Re:

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 3:19 pm

Harbal wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:56 pm
That is no proof of them having a soul.
Are we going anywhere with this?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 3:23 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:58 pm
Well it would not reply unless it was a robotic body made of plastic and stuff, and then it would have to have been programmed by a brain-mind.
A mind is behind all intelligent activity.

Ultimately, as you say, a robotic body would only seem to respond, but actually has no volition, no appearance not pre-programmed into it by a mind that has its own volition.

Belinda
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Re: Re:

Post by Belinda » Sat May 04, 2019 3:24 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:19 pm
Harbal wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:56 pm
That is no proof of them having a soul.
Are we going anywhere with this?
It was you Immanuel who raised the topic of dead bodies.

Belinda
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Belinda » Sat May 04, 2019 3:25 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
A mind is behind all intelligent activity.
Where in holy writ does it say that minds are better than bodies?

Immanuel Can:
Ultimately, as you say, a robotic body would only seem to respond, but actually has no volition, no appearance not pre-programmed into it by a mind that has its own volition.
Volition is one example of relative states. There is no volition in a river. There is limited volition in a tadpole. There is more volition in a pony than in a tadpole. There is more volition in a man than there is in a pony.
Last edited by Belinda on Sat May 04, 2019 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:06 pm
It has been said that the personal God is Platonism for the masses. I'll google that in a second.

Nietzsche
Nietzsche said a lot of things...like "Do you go to women? Take the whip."

On that point, I'm happy to take him with a grain of salt. Not everything he said was sensible or humane.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:25 pm
Where in holy writ does it say that minds are better than bodies?
You'll have to point out to me where I said that.

Belinda
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Belinda » Sat May 04, 2019 3:30 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:26 pm
Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:06 pm
It has been said that the personal God is Platonism for the masses. I'll google that in a second.

Nietzsche
Nietzsche said a lot of things...like "Do you go to women? Take the whip."

On that point, I'm happy to take him with a grain of salt. Not everything he said was sensible or humane.
I cherry pick too. or in other words, neither you nor I have to buy the whole farm.

Belinda
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Belinda » Sat May 04, 2019 3:31 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:26 pm
Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:25 pm
Where in holy writ does it say that minds are better than bodies?
You'll have to point out to me where I said that.
I said "holy writ" not you!

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 3:49 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:31 pm
I said "holy writ" not you!
Which "holy writ" did you have in mind? There are lots of "writs" around, but that doesn't make them all "holy."

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Do humans have a soul?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat May 04, 2019 3:55 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:25 pm
Volition is one example of relative states. There is no volition in a river. There is limited volition in a tadpole. There is more volition in a pony than in a tadpole. There is more volition in a man than there is in a pony.
You're using "relative" as a synonym for "graded." That's imprecise. It will lead to errors of amphiboly. You'll think you're arguing for one thing, when the actual meaning of your words are arguing for another.

If you're speaking of volition, better to say "comes in gradations," not "exists in relative states."

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