Just another belief system.

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6500
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Just another belief system.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:04 am

Nonduality is also a belief system, but one which wipes itself and the believer away...It's normal it doesn't have a lot of 'followers'...

.

PeteJ
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by PeteJ » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:49 pm

Nonduality is not a belief system. This is exactly and precisely what it is not.

Of course, many believe without knowing, but those who know are not relying on a belief system. The entire idea is to transcend the believer-believed distinction.

surreptitious57
Posts: 3303
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:36 pm

I do not describe myself as non dualist but I know that everything is connected to everything else
The distinctions that exist such as mental and physical for example are for reasons of practicality
In reality there is no such distinction but we create them because it is easier for us to understand

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6500
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:24 am

PeteJ wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:49 pm
Nonduality is not a belief system. This is exactly and precisely what it is not.

Of course, many believe without knowing, but those who know are not relying on a belief system. The entire idea is to transcend the believer-believed distinction.
That which appears to transcend never transcended.

That's the enjoyed absurdism of conceptualising the non-conceptual.

.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6500
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:46 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:36 pm
I do not describe myself as non dualist but I know that everything is connected to everything else
The distinctions that exist such as mental and physical for example are for reasons of practicality
In reality there is no such distinction but we create them because it is easier for us to understand
Nondual reality is a tricky sticky trap for the sense of being a separate being.
Being can negate everything even key concepts like mind, consciousness, the witness, ultimate subject etc... yet being can not negate Source the undying, unborn wellspring that has to be....THIS unknown source of all known knowledge IS without doubt or error...rendering all things known illusory non-substantial invisible ideas empty to the core.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:36 pm
I do not describe myself as non dualist but I know
The I that is able to describe itself as a non - non-dualist is an illusory appearance within this immediate already existing not-knowing non-dual self. Rendering all claimed knowledge an illusory appearance within this reality.

Once we acknowledge an essential inextinguishable Source, our understandings and meanings lose their absoluteness. Anything known/spoken is never absolute - it's relative.

.

You first have to exist before you can know you exist. Knowing you exist is the illusory secondary reality, the play of maya, of otherness and all things.

.

PeteJ
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by PeteJ » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:59 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:46 am
Nondual reality is a tricky sticky trap for the sense of being a separate being.
Being can negate everything even key concepts like mind, consciousness, the witness, ultimate subject etc... yet being can not negate Source the undying, unborn wellspring that has to be....THIS unknown source of all known knowledge IS without doubt or error...rendering all things known illusory non-substantial invisible ideas empty to the core.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:36 pm
I do not describe myself as non dualist but I know
The I that is able to describe itself as a non - non-dualist is an illusory appearance within this immediate already existing not-knowing non-dual self. Rendering all claimed knowledge an illusory appearance within this reality.

Once we acknowledge an essential inextinguishable Source, our understandings and meanings lose their absoluteness. Anything known/spoken is never absolute - it's relative.

You first have to exist before you can know you exist. Knowing you exist is the illusory secondary reality, the play of maya, of otherness and all things.
Phew. A post I can agree with at last. This forum harbours a lot of strange views on these issues.

Walker
Posts: 6714
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Walker » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:20 pm

Not all belief systems are the same, thus the "just," in "just another belief system," is a red herring.

Some beliefs are fantasy-based, such as belief in unicorns.

Other systems of knowledge correlate with reality and rationality, such as sense-based perception.

Not all inferences are valid, simply because they are all inferences.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6500
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Walker wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:20 pm
Not all belief systems are the same, thus the "just," in "just another belief system," is a red herring.

Some beliefs are fantasy-based, such as belief in unicorns.

Other systems of knowledge correlate with reality and rationality, such as sense-based perception.

Not all inferences are valid, simply because they are all inferences.
Well I have to disagree with you on the “JUST” bit being a red herring.

In fact it’s a very just statement to make because there is no such thing as Nonduality because it’s not a thing.
It’s just another belief, in my humble opinion...you are welcome to yours equally.

User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Sculptor » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:16 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:04 am
Nonduality is also a belief system, but one which wipes itself and the believer away...It's normal it doesn't have a lot of 'followers'...

.
I think you have neglected to observe the suffix.
In the same way A-theism is not a belief system; NON- duality is not a belief system either.

I have only heard the most arrogant theists try to insist that atheism is a belief system. And I would imagine that only a person identifying themselves as a dualist would support your rather absurd idea.

There is no such thing as Nondualism, excpet as an indication that the recipient is not a dualist.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6500
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:12 am

Sculptor wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:16 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:04 am
Nonduality is also a belief system, but one which wipes itself and the believer away...It's normal it doesn't have a lot of 'followers'...

.
I think you have neglected to observe the suffix.
In the same way A-theism is not a belief system; NON- duality is not a belief system either.

I have only heard the most arrogant theists try to insist that atheism is a belief system. And I would imagine that only a person identifying themselves as a dualist would support your rather absurd idea.

There is no such thing as Nondualism, excpet as an indication that the recipient is not a dualist.
Nonduality isn't an 'ism' although mind really loves to categorize it like that, because then it can store it away in it's archive.

Nondualism is an idea. Ideas are not here to get us somewhere, they are here because we are an idea.

Walker
Posts: 6714
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Walker » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 am

No, non-duality is not a belief system.

And, in the spirit of Philosophy Now, the statement requires no supporting rationale, facts, or examples.

PeteJ
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by PeteJ » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:42 am

Walker wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 am
No, non-duality is not a belief system.

And, in the spirit of Philosophy Now, the statement requires no supporting rationale, facts, or examples.
Blimey. Another post I can agree with.

There is something odd about this forum. It's the oddest philosophy forum I've been on. It's like many folks here don't feel the need to read anything yet have strong views on everything. The ratio of dogmatic pontification to philosophical enquiry doesn't seem very healthy.

Skepdick
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Skepdick » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:04 pm

Walker wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 am
No, non-duality is not a belief system.
In 2019, that's the exact same thing we say about science.
Walker wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 am
And, in the spirit of Philosophy Now, the statement requires no supporting rationale, facts, or examples.
Precisely! "Science is not a belief system" requires no supporting rationale, facts, or examples.

Skepdick
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Skepdick » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:05 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:42 am
Walker wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 am
No, non-duality is not a belief system.

And, in the spirit of Philosophy Now, the statement requires no supporting rationale, facts, or examples.
Blimey. Another post I can agree with.

There is something odd about this forum. It's the oddest philosophy forum I've been on. It's like many folks here don't feel the need to read anything yet have strong views on everything. The ratio of dogmatic pontification to philosophical enquiry doesn't seem very healthy.
In the spirit of "Science is not a belief system" (which is to be understood as "experience is foundational") it seems that you got that exactly backwards.

The ratio of scientific enquiry to philosophical dogmatism is not very healthy on this forum.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6500
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Just another belief system.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:21 pm

Walker wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 am
No, non-duality is not a belief system.

I don’t agree.

.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests