No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:59 am

Life and Death are the same stateless state.

There is here an eternal witness without beginning nor end, neither alive nor dead.

This witness can neither witness it's own birth nor death...birth and death are fictional concepts superimposed by eternity itself, within itself.
A concept is a fictional appearance (knowledge) within the natural unborn undying not-knowing stateless state that is the mind.

What thought does it is thinks a separate self is being born to the mother in the form of a baby, but that baby is not separate from what is birthing it, the separation is caused in the naming of the baby...the baby is an appearance of what is always this alive eternal presence that has no knowledge of any beginning nor end... knowledge is the concept of something, knowledge separates what cannot be separated, separation is a total illusion...it's an idea superimposed on not-knowing by not-knowing.


There is no separate person here to know they are alive or dead... such states are secondary knowledge, fictions.



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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:51 am

Life can only come from life. Life is all there is and no thing is living it therefore there is no death.

All knowledge is fiction.



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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:24 am

roydop wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:11 pm
There simply is No self..there is here only the Absolute...it is not in relationship with anything. Any relative idea about the Absolute is absurd.
Well, I would say there is a Self (obviously "you" exist) but it is singular, nor is it dependent upon thoughts and sensations. This world is relative to Absolute/Self and Self is not dependent upon a world.
Agreed, in the sense there is no ''individual self''

There is no many of the ONE there is only ONE appearing as the many.

Yeah it's a tough sell to the philosopher. It's hard to die, when the mind is dying to live, but easy when the mind is living to die, and that is just about the minds lot depending on what side of the fence it chooses to live out it's allotted life.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by roydop » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:40 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:24 am
roydop wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:11 pm
There simply is No self..there is here only the Absolute...it is not in relationship with anything. Any relative idea about the Absolute is absurd.
Well, I would say there is a Self (obviously "you" exist) but it is singular, nor is it dependent upon thoughts and sensations. This world is relative to Absolute/Self and Self is not dependent upon a world.
Agreed, in the sense there is no ''individual self''

There is no many of the ONE there is only ONE appearing as the many.

Yeah it's a tough sell to the philosopher. It's hard to die, when the mind is dying to live, but easy when the mind is living to die, and that is just about the minds lot depending on what side of the fence it chooses to live out it's allotted life.

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The mind is itself a labyrinth. The vast majority (99.99%?) of human consciousness doesn't even recognize it as so, which is testament to it's effectiveness.

What a relief to be free from that delusion! It truly is like waking from a dream.

🙏

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:59 pm

roydop wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:40 pm


The mind is itself a labyrinth. The vast majority (99.99%?) of human consciousness doesn't even recognize it as so, which is testament to it's effectiveness.

What a relief to be free from that delusion! It truly is like waking from a dream.

🙏
The gift of lucid living. 🙏

☯️

🕉

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:53 am

roydop wrote:
The mind is itself a labyrinth. The vast majority (99.99%?) of human consciousness doesn't even recognize it as so, which is testament to it's effectiveness.

What a relief to be free from that delusion! It truly is like waking from a dream.

🙏
Well speaking for the 99.99% it looks more like walking into one.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by roydop » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:12 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:53 am
roydop wrote:
The mind is itself a labyrinth. The vast majority (99.99%?) of human consciousness doesn't even recognize it as so, which is testament to it's effectiveness.

What a relief to be free from that delusion! It truly is like waking from a dream.

🙏
Well speaking for the 99.99% it looks more like walking into one.
It would look that way to someone delusional.

Our species spends more time "in their own head" and looking at screens (which regurgitate human-produced information) than the physical realm (non-human construct). Look at our increasing addiction to our own creation. We are inbred and this inbreading has caused mass delusion. The fact that we shrug our shoulders and accept the human condition as "normal" is clear indication of the extent of our delusion.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:29 am

To be born is to die - to die is to be born.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:38 am

Dontaskme wrote:Language is known by not-knowing, knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality. ...
You're putting your metaphysical cart before the horse.
The body has no knowledge of itself, knowing is of the mind, it's a superimposed idea upon not-knowing..the mind is a myth, it's creates the illusion that there is a first person singular pronoun ( I ) that knows. There is no such entity. The entity is an hallucintaion, a belief, a thought, a dream character, a figment of the imagination or whatever. ...
"Or whatever" :lol:
If knowing is of the mind and the mind is a myth how are you knowing this?
Language is the thing that creates the other of the inner voice I agree but the body knows itself through the pressure in its feet, the sight of its hands and feet and arms and legs, etc, the movement of itself, etc.
There is nothing known outside of language ( knowledge ) ..knowledge is a fiction. ...
Not heard of teaching by showing and doing?
There is no thing seeing an image ....where does the image come from?...an image is an optical illusion of light, no thing has ever seen light, light is the seeing that cannot be seen. The seen is an empty image of the imageless seeing, an hallucination/dream. There is no thing in the image except an empty invisible thought. ...
How many times? I agree there is no 'image', what you 'see' is the end of the process of the body processing an eternal reality, me and the squirrel don't 'see' the same tree but we both bloody climb up it when the wolf is about.
The body sees nothing, the body is known via concept that no thing is making up..aka knowledge. All knowledge is not-knowing knowledge, an illusion of a mind that has never been seen. ...
We agree, you are talking about the noumena the difference is you think you know what it is whereas I know you can't or at least until you tell me how you actually came to know this?
There is no you being aware it is aware. The you is AWARENESS. ...
No, being aware that you are aware is exactly one of the things that makes us what we are compared to a large percentage of the other animals.
Being injured and in pain is the hallucination of being injured and in pain. There is nothing experiencing that, there is only the experience, pain is the experience. No one owns that pain, else they could make it disappear. ...
And yet the buddhist monk appears to be able to immolate themselves?
This is just more knowledge ..Appearances affecting other appearances will cause effects in those appearances...this is all known knowledge, known by no one. ...
Well apart from the chemists that is.
Try getting rid of pain without using another appearance, and you'll soon find out that the pain is not your pain.
How does the buddhist monk or the martyr manage it then?
There is no knowledge of an external world except what the mind makes up, a mind that has never been seen...knowledge informs the illusory nature of the knower...there isn't one...hence dreamscape reality...aka make-belief. Infinite intelligence is not owned by the body, it is the body, because the body is functioning all by itself...intelligence is not owned by some intellectual entity called the mind, there is no such entity...except the conceptual thought...aka make-belief... identification with the thought turns into the artifical belief, giving fictional autonomy to the sense of what is essentially the no self of pure being. There is no thing being being, there is just being. Being doesn't need to think itself into being to be ..being just is. All life is just being (uncreated)...'Thought' creates the idea there is an I being this being ..which is already HERENOW, NOWHERE...so 'thought' is not what being is. 'Thought' is what being isn't. Thought is not-knowing knowing...a fictional story upon nothing.
How do I know this? ..I don't...knowledge does.
For what am I but this not-knowing known. ...
Don't forget that you are primarily a body with senses, memory and a language in an external world.
Life doesn't ask such questions....a question can only arise to the idea that there is some thing here that wants to know something, when in truth everything is known, but not by the body....knowing is known by no body. ...
There is no 'Life' just living things and as such some of them ask questions but most don't.
The body doesn't know anything, what knows is knowledge, where does knowledge come from? ...
You are reifying "knowledge" here.
..it comes from ''thought'' ...where does ''thought'' come from? ..what is a ''thought''? what does 'thought' look like?
It 'looks' like a sequence and melange of the representations provided by our senses and it comes from having a body with a memory.
...no body thinks, ...
Bodies with memory and a language think.
if the body thinks then ask your arm or leg to think about the answer to what 2 + 2 = ?
Raise a clenched fist in front of your face, lift your index finger, lift your middle finder, look at for a second then lift your ring finger, lift your little finger, observe the answer.
...no thing is thinking, there is no thinker...reality is an illusory world of empty knowledge aka this assumed known knowledge by not-knowing. ...
I have 'thinking' as that which is done with language and the internal voice, what do you think it is?
By realising there is no thinker..and that thoughts do not exist as real things in and of themselves, and that thoughts are just knowledge...aka the invisible visible, the unknown knowing, the imageless image. ...
I didn't ask you for your realisation I asked you for what you did to come to this realisation?
What's stopping the 'why question' to arise?
A question is only born out of the answers you already have, since who exactly is it that is asking the question? and there is your answer.
You are infinite source of all your knowledge...what source is is unknowable. ...
So could you come fix my boiler as it is playing up and I don't appear to know how to do it.
The body does not ask questions...the only question is who or what does? and there is your answer. ...
A body with senses, memory and a language in an external world asks questions.
You have no knowledge of anything except what you make up out of your own not-knowing Source.
Did you go to school?

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:39 am

roydop wrote:It would look that way to someone delusional. ...
Given you say that you are the 0.01% do you not consider that you might be the delusional one?
Our species spends more time "in their own head" and looking at screens (which regurgitate human-produced information) than the physical realm (non-human construct). Look at our increasing addiction to our own creation. We are inbred and this inbreading has caused mass delusion. The fact that we shrug our shoulders and accept the human condition as "normal" is clear indication of the extent of our delusion.
No idea what this is all about? But especially ironic given the medium.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:37 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:38 am
Don't forget that you are primarily a body with senses, memory and a language in an external world.


I am not this body. I am in this body, and this is part of my incarnation and I honor it but that isn’t who I am.

That which is growing the grass is growing you.

The rest of your responses are the same old barking dog woof woof insignificant woo woof not relevant to the subject topic.



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This topic is about the ultimate subject (No one(which cannot be objectified... except in words like 'no one'... which have no meaning) :D

On this basis, there is no double negative... 8)

You are me and I am you and no one is the only one here :shock:

There are no 'others', only 'other perspectives', from which no one experiences the apparent world.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Arising_uk » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am

Dontaskme wrote:I am not this body. I am in this body, and this is part of my incarnation and I honor it but that isn’t who I am. ...
So basically you are a Dualist.
That which is growing the grass is growing you. ...
That'll be chemicals and sunshine then.
The rest of your responses are the same old barking dog woof woof insignificant woo woof not relevant to the subject topic. ...
But they were in response to your waffle? Still, how convenient for you.
This topic is about the ultimate subject (No one(which cannot be objectified... except in words like 'no one'... which have no meaning) :D

On this basis, there is no double negative... 8) ...
I thought it was about Birth and Death? Still, not surprised that it's actually about your pet metaphysic.
You are me and I am you and no one is the only one here :shock: ...
So tell me what I'm thinking then.
There are no 'others', only 'other perspectives', from which no one experiences the apparent world.
Does 'it'. So which world is 'it' living in?

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:49 am

Dontaskme wrote:I am not this body. I am in this body, and this is part of my incarnation and I honor it but that isn’t who I am. ...
Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am
So basically you are a Dualist.
There are two of me? :roll:

That which is growing the grass is growing you. ...
Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am
That'll be chemicals and sunshine then.
I don't know what is doing me, except what I make up conceptually as a fiction of my not-knowing.

The rest of your responses are the same old barking dog woof woof insignificant woo woof not relevant to the subject topic. ...
Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am
But they were in response to your waffle? Still, how convenient for you.
Well yeah, I prefer the smell of my own shit thanks very much.

This topic is about the ultimate subject (No one(which cannot be objectified... except in words like 'no one'... which have no meaning) :D

On this basis, there is no double negative... 8) ...
Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am
I thought it was about Birth and Death? Still, not surprised that it's actually about your pet metaphysic.
It's about No birth-No death...can't you read?

You are me and I am you and no one is the only one here :shock: ...
Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am
So tell me what I'm thinking then.
I've already explained all this to you before, so now you just want it all repeated to you again.

Claiming you are the thinker, is not what dogs do...try finding the thinker before making such a claim.

''thoughts'' are not in any body...if they are, then hold one up to me, so I can have a look at it?

There are no 'others', only 'other perspectives', from which no one experiences the apparent world.
Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:35 am
Does 'it'. So which world is 'it' living in?
IT doesn't live in any world. IT is the world. The world is in IT - IT is not in the world. How many more times would you like me to bark that divine paradox out of my dog?

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by gaffo » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:36 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:44 am
gaffo wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:18 am

yep my consciousness.

I'm talking to myself again..........again.
You are talking to the thought of you, there is no you there except the thought of you known by (not-a-thing knowing consciousness)

There is no entity there except the invisible thought...in this conception.

:D :wink:
whatever, i am all that i know of, you are just me talking to me - per the knowable.

don't bother trying to prove you exist/am not just me talking to me.............all is folly per logic.

logic is folly too, but all allowed me via my limited nature.

..........

please not waste my time proving you "exist" since that is all confined to my "Senses" and even then in no way shows you exist outside of me.

so do not waste my time about your existance as another being outside of me.

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Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:17 pm

There is no you being aware it is aware. The you is AWARENESS. ...
Arising_uk wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:38 am
No, being aware that you are aware is exactly one of the things that makes us what we are compared to a large percentage of the other animals.


Yes, the you is awareness, there is no you that is aware...there is only awareness aware of awareness as non-conceptual awareness... and also aware of a human being (concept)....awareness is not a human being...it's aware of the concept, the human is just a concept already couched within awareness that knows each concept as it arises in it.
Do you get that? ..there's not two there, there is only one.

Example: does the space define an object in it, or does the object define the space around it?
See how both space and the object in space are inseparably one and the same empty space? the object cannot be separated out of the space it's couched in.
So what separates this whole inseparable picture?
What is it that says this is space and this is the object in space? thus causing an apparent separation/division.
Also note, that there is no space without an object and no object without space..so what is it that makes the distinction,the differential division?

Can we know?

Does space say it is space?
Does object say it is object?

What's going on? where is the separation coming from exactly?

Can anyone here answer what's going on?


Anyone...





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