Re: No Birth - No Death - No Death - No Birth.
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:46 am
It's not an experience. You're IT. But one must use language to communicate despite its limitations.
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It's not an experience. You're IT. But one must use language to communicate despite its limitations.
Then why do you keep agreeing with DAM (in case you aren't DAM's alt nick), who keeps talking about hallucinations, projections, dreamscape etc?
No I am Ramu, not DAM. We agree because we are non dualists, not physicalists. The true nature of Consciousness has been known for thousands of years. Brain does not generate consciousness. Consciousness, (Source, Being, True Self), is first order. Everything else is second order. In other words..everything is occurring within It.
Yes, but that "first order" is, in a way, just the sum of the "second order". We are that.Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:35 pm No I am Ramu, not DAM. We agree because we are non dualists, not physicalists. The true nature of Consciousness has been known for thousands of years. Brain does not generate consciousness. Consciousness, (Source, Being, True Self), is first order. Everything else is second order. In other words..everything is occurring within It.
DAM is expressing nonduality in a different fashion. The message is the same ultimately.Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:51 pmYes, but that "first order" is, in a way, just the sum of the "second order". We are that.Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:35 pm No I am Ramu, not DAM. We agree because we are non dualists, not physicalists. The true nature of Consciousness has been known for thousands of years. Brain does not generate consciousness. Consciousness, (Source, Being, True Self), is first order. Everything else is second order. In other words..everything is occurring within It.
If there's nothing extra to be experienced about the "first order", and it doesn't do anything, and it doesn't dream up things etc., then why do you agree with DAM?
Well her endless word salads seem to paint a different picture: she really seems to think that the Consciousness does things "as a whole".Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:53 pmDAM is expressing nonduality in a different fashion. The message is the same ultimately.Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:51 pmYes, but that "first order" is, in a way, just the sum of the "second order". We are that.Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:35 pm No I am Ramu, not DAM. We agree because we are non dualists, not physicalists. The true nature of Consciousness has been known for thousands of years. Brain does not generate consciousness. Consciousness, (Source, Being, True Self), is first order. Everything else is second order. In other words..everything is occurring within It.
If there's nothing extra to be experienced about the "first order", and it doesn't do anything, and it doesn't dream up things etc., then why do you agree with DAM?
What ever you say Humpty.Dontaskme wrote:Different strokes for different folks that's all.
Who put the meaning in the word ''hallucination'' ? ..who who who..who lets the dogs out?
If there are no things then how would you become aware of them to 'hallucinate' them into existence?To be aware of any thing is to hallucinate that thing into existence...since there are no things. ...
Except one could argue that there is a noumena and that is what leads each living body to create what it 'see's' dependent upon its senses.There is no thing seeing an image ....where does the image come from?...the universe is one big hallucination. ...
How are you aware of this?That which is aware is not a thing.
Not heard of local anaesthetics?Being injured and in pain is the hallucination of being injured and in pain. There is nothing experiencing that, there is only the experience, pain is the experience. No one owns that pain, else they could make it disappear. ...
I've taken my fair share and the body and an external world are always there.Being injured by a big red bus is just one of the many experiences within life which is one big giant hallucination within which all other hallucinations are couched, some hallucinations are more powerful than others...and any one (no one) taking psychotropic or hallucinogenic substances aka appearances interacting with the brain another appearance, aka appearances affecting other appearances...will be able to tell you that...I mean be witness to that effect that no thing is causing. ...
If this witness never appeared how do you know there is one?The cause is in the effect, and the effect is in the cause, they are one and the same in the moment. All changing appearances within the changeless witness that never appeared. ...
Do I. Tell me how you go about this 'deeper thinking'?You need to think deeper into the metaphysics of reality. ...
What's stopping what?Why not?
What's stopping it?
Language is known by not-knowing, knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality. The body has no knowledge of itself, knowing is of the mind, it's a superimposed idea upon not-knowing..the mind is a myth, it's creates the illusion that there is a first person singular pronoun ( I ) that knows. There is no such entity. The entity is an hallucintaion, a belief, a thought, a dream character, a figment of the imagination or whatever.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:37 pmWhat ever you say Humpty.Dontaskme wrote:Different strokes for different folks that's all.
Who put the meaning in the word ''hallucination'' ? ..who who who..who lets the dogs out?
To be aware of any thing is to hallucinate that thing into existence...since there are no things. ...
There is no thing seeing an image ....where does the image come from?...an image is an optical illusion of light, no thing has ever seen light, light is the seeing that cannot be seen. The seen is an empty image of the imageless seeing, an hallucination/dream. There is no thing in the image except an empty invisible thought.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:37 pmIf there are no things then how would you become aware of them to 'hallucinate' them into existence?
The body sees nothing, the body is known via concept that no thing is making up..aka knowledge. All knowledge is not-knowing knowledge, an illusion of a mind that has never been seen.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:37 pmExcept one could argue that there is a noumena and that is what leads each living body to create what it 'see's' dependent upon its senses.
That which is aware is not a thing.
There is no you being aware it is aware. The you is AWARENESS.
Being injured and in pain is the hallucination of being injured and in pain. There is nothing experiencing that, there is only the experience, pain is the experience. No one owns that pain, else they could make it disappear. ...
This is just more knowledge ..Appearances affecting other appearances will cause effects in those appearances...this is all known knowledge, known by no one.
Being injured by a big red bus is just one of the many experiences within life which is one big giant hallucination within which all other hallucinations are couched, some hallucinations are more powerful than others...and any one (no one) taking psychotropic or hallucinogenic substances aka appearances interacting with the brain another appearance, aka appearances affecting other appearances...will be able to tell you that...I mean be witness to that effect that no thing is causing. ...
There is no knowledge of an external world except what the mind makes up, a mind that has never been seen...knowledge informs the illusory nature of the knower...there isn't one...hence dreamscape reality...aka make-belief. Infinite intelligence is not owned by the body, it is the body, because the body is functioning all by itself...intelligence is not owned by some intellectual entity called the mind, there is no such entity...except the conceptual thought...aka make-belief... identification with the thought turns into the artifical belief, giving fictional autonomy to the sense of what is essentially the no self of pure being. There is no thing being being, there is just being. Being doesn't need to think itself into being to be ..being just is. All life is just being (uncreated)...'Thought' creates the idea there is an I being this being ..which is already HERENOW, NOWHERE...so 'thought' is not what being is. 'Thought' is what being isn't. Thought is not-knowing knowing...a fictional story upon nothing.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:37 pmI've taken my fair share and the body and an external world are always there.
The cause is in the effect, and the effect is in the cause, they are one and the same in the moment. All changing appearances within the changeless witness that never appeared. ...
The body doesn't know anything, what knows is knowledge, where does knowledge come from? ..it comes from ''thought'' ...where does ''thought'' come from? ..what is a ''thought''? what does 'thought' look like? ...no body thinks, if the body thinks then ask your arm or leg to think about the answer to what 2 + 2 = ? ...no thing is thinking, there is no thinker...reality is an illusory world of empty knowledge aka this assumed known knowledge by not-knowing.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:37 pmIf this witness never appeared how do you know there is one?
You need to think deeper into the metaphysics of reality. ...
By realising there is no thinker..and that thoughts do not exist as real things in and of themselves, and that thoughts are just knowledge...aka the invisible visible, the unknown knowing, the imageless image.
Why not? What's stopping it?
What's stopping the 'why question' to arise?
The Absolute is experience itself.
Again: there is nothing extra to be experienced about the Absolute/beingness. People who think that there is, still hold onto a false identity.roydop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:26 pmThe Absolute is experience itself.
It's hilarious how the thought process is taken to be the reality/truth, rather than beingness.
Non thought = no beliefs. A thought lasts about one second. Then ego holds onto that thought and draws a line to another held onto belief that it brings up. Voila! There's an identity that that is exactly what you are not.
To be free from suffering is kinda special.Atla wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:39 pmAgain: there is nothing extra to be experienced about the Absolute/beingness. People who think that there is, still hold onto a false identity.roydop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:26 pmThe Absolute is experience itself.
It's hilarious how the thought process is taken to be the reality/truth, rather than beingness.
Non thought = no beliefs. A thought lasts about one second. Then ego holds onto that thought and draws a line to another held onto belief that it brings up. Voila! There's an identity that that is exactly what you are not.
Good answer. All different paths / knowledge lead to the same source, namely, here now Nowhere.Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:53 pmDAM is expressing nonduality in a different fashion. The message is the same ultimately.Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:51 pmYes, but that "first order" is, in a way, just the sum of the "second order". We are that.Ramu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:35 pm No I am Ramu, not DAM. We agree because we are non dualists, not physicalists. The true nature of Consciousness has been known for thousands of years. Brain does not generate consciousness. Consciousness, (Source, Being, True Self), is first order. Everything else is second order. In other words..everything is occurring within It.
If there's nothing extra to be experienced about the "first order", and it doesn't do anything, and it doesn't dream up things etc., then why do you agree with DAM?
Yes, that's ultimately what the non-dual message is pointing to...to be free of suffering, is to be free of self...suffering can only arise to the sense of self.roydop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:11 amTo be free from suffering is kinda special.Atla wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:39 pmAgain: there is nothing extra to be experienced about the Absolute/beingness. People who think that there is, still hold onto a false identity.roydop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:26 pm
The Absolute is experience itself.
It's hilarious how the thought process is taken to be the reality/truth, rather than beingness.
Non thought = no beliefs. A thought lasts about one second. Then ego holds onto that thought and draws a line to another held onto belief that it brings up. Voila! There's an identity that that is exactly what you are not.
The idea you have a brain or that you can stop thinking is knowledge...it's pure fiction made of empty concepts no one is making.