Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Eodnhoj7
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Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:26 pm

1. Empty mindlessness is both a practice in Zen Buddhism as well as the standard implication of the western philosophical question "does a person perceive anything if they have no empirical senses?".

2. All 0d point space is effectively nothingness, where the point is only observed through a a form. Strict point space effectively is a boundless field without defintion.

3. This absence of defintion, ie the connection and separation of points and the forms that correspond from the connection and separation of points existing as points in themselves relative to other forms, observes an inherent nature of point space within the psyche that grounds it under "emptyness" where an absence of "reasoning" is applied.

4. All axioms, as assumed truths, are an absence of reason (ie measurement) where the axiom exists as effectively a point of origin which guides perspective. For example a health study comes out saying "x" food is bad for you. A person takes it as axiomatic, implying they do not think about the phenomenon, and as such considering it is "assumed" integrate it into their perspective. The axiom, "x" food is bad, is a empty state of mind in the observer (as it is assumes) which effectively exists as a point of origin for the observers further actions.

This empty state of mind is observed in point 3.

5. The axiom, under point 4, as grounding the consciousness effectively acts as a means of inversion. The axiom causes a person to invert one course of action for another. For example a person is about to eat, that person sees food "x". The axiom "food x is bad" as an assumed truth exists a means of inverting the action of the observer, and there decision to pick up the food, and redirect the one course of action into another.

The axiom, as assumed (no thought), in turn acts as a means of inversion where it directs one course of action to another.

6. The axiom dually, as not thought out, exists as a focal point from which all reasoning stems from in which all phenomenon are connected to it. A person may observe the axiom "all people are selfish" and base there lives around putting up walls in relationships as well as always having a mild sense of paranoia. The axiom effectively exists through all the phenomenon in which the person exists. Now this axiom in itself may not be thought except through a process of building a self justifying framework where further axioms stem from it.


This axiom as "everything" effectively exists as a state of "everything" where the mind exists in a simultaneously boundless manner where the axiom exists as it's own justification through which all phenomenon are connected.

It exists as pure form that is similar to emptiness and can be conducive to a 1d point as pure form.

All perpections are connected through this one axiom and exists as extensions of it as approximations of it. For example the axiom "all people are selfish" is applied approximately through an action such a locking the doors always or avoiding charity work.

All actions exists as extensions of this one axiom and exist as formed through it. Examples such as "all people are good" or "people are people" have corresponding examples as well.

7. The axiom, or self evident truth, which not only grounds consciousness but effectively is equivalent to the state of point space, observes all consciousness as grounded in space as space itself.

roydop
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by roydop » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:16 pm

So what do I do with this information?

Walker
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Walker » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:36 pm

roydop wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:16 pm
So what do I do with this information?
Well, you could begin to intellectually, dualistically, research Shunyata like there’s no tomorrow to determine if the topic sparks hair-on-fire urgency of interest, however such a focused interest is usually the product of need.

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Walker » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:45 pm

Someone is working overtime with Wiki as a medium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā

One wonders if there’s a little army of monks diligently working medieval-style in Dharamsala by candle and LED light.

roydop
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by roydop » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:12 pm

Walker wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:45 pm
Someone is working overtime with Wiki as a medium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā

One wonders if there’s a little army of monks diligently working medieval-style in Dharamsala by candle and LED light.
So I called myself a "Buddhist" for a decade but something wasn't fitting quite right. Then I came across the teachings of Ramana Maharshi and all reading/seeking stopped. It was the final teaching for me.

The difference is that the Buddhist view on emptiness doesn't lead to anything Real. If form is emptiness and emptiness is form, then this is a ponzi scheme with nothing existing absolutely, but only in duality. What is the phenomena that IS?

Yes this realm is fundamentally unsubstantial, but there must be "something" that is immutable, unchanging, on which this change takes place.

Ramana says, and this is my experience, there is "something" that is absolute, that exists apart from this realm. This something is the Self. It's the same Self from which all arises and passes.

Walker
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Walker » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:31 pm

roydop wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:12 pm
Walker wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:45 pm
Someone is working overtime with Wiki as a medium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā

One wonders if there’s a little army of monks diligently working medieval-style in Dharamsala by candle and LED light.
So I called myself a "Buddhist" for a decade but something wasn't fitting quite right. Then I came across the teachings of Ramana Maharshi and all reading/seeking stopped. It was the final teaching for me.
Awesome. I'm a big fan of Sri Ramana Maharshi.

I realized (nature of mind) before I ever heard of him, or before involvement with Buddhism, and Dzogchen, and Patanjali which has been going on for decades (15 years) now ... all which came after decades of meditation practices (30 years).

Cripes, I'm older than I feel.

After family and work wasn't so busy I naturally turned to self-enquiry, then in subsequent reading found that others had also gone that way, and that Sri Ramana Maharshi actually taught around that natural question.

:)

I had to find answers to experiences, so I looked and found that U.G. Krishnamurti's account of his awakening came closest to mirroring what I went through ... after those decades of structured meditation.

So round it out with an interest in physical hatha yoga beginning in the teens, and it's been about half a century of this. Time flies.

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by AlexW » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:06 am

roydop wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:12 pm
Ramana says, and this is my experience, there is "something" that is absolute, that exists apart from this realm. This something is the Self
I enjoy Ramana too - even he didn't say a lot as his real teaching was Silence (or rather attentive awareness).
He also spoke to people using very different concepts and pointers (sometimes he contradicted himself in a matter of minutes) - as he obviously knew very well "at which level" a person was and what kind of conceptual interpretation would fit best - makes no sense to tell a child to wear a shoe that only fits an adult...
It happens as such very easily that his comments are used out of context and applied to a situation to which they do not belong.

Anyway, it is human nature to objectify everything as thought can only work with objects and thus we even objectify the Self/Absolute - stating that "something" which exists apart from this realm (which realm?) is the Self is true only for a very specific conceptual scenario (it can be used to point out that all ideas/beliefs, including the ego, are actually unreal in a way that they are all made up, thought up, and are actually never directly experienced) - otherwise stating that "there is only Self" would fit much better (in my opinion).

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:26 pm

AlexW wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:06 am
I enjoy Ramana too - even he didn't say a lot as his real teaching was Silence (or rather attentive awareness).
He also spoke to people using very different concepts and pointers (sometimes he contradicted himself in a matter of minutes) - as he obviously knew very well "at which level" a person was and what kind of conceptual interpretation would fit best - makes no sense to tell a child to wear a shoe that only fits an adult...
It happens as such very easily that his comments are used out of context and applied to a situation to which they do not belong.

Anyway, it is human nature to objectify everything as thought can only work with objects and thus we even objectify the Self/Absolute - stating that "something" which exists apart from this realm (which realm?) is the Self is true only for a very specific conceptual scenario (it can be used to point out that all ideas/beliefs, including the ego, are actually unreal in a way that they are all made up, thought up, and are actually never directly experienced) - otherwise stating that "there is only Self" would fit much better (in my opinion).
Very well said... Ramana was a human too and could ONLY speak objectively which is contradictory unavoidably so to what is actually being pointed to.

I like the statement... There is no SELF because there is no OTHER than SELF. :D

And then quoting Rupert Spira ( The I that KNOWS is the same I that is KNOWN )



.

roydop
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by roydop » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:31 pm

AlexW wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:06 am
roydop wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:12 pm
Ramana says, and this is my experience, there is "something" that is absolute, that exists apart from this realm. This something is the Self
I enjoy Ramana too - even he didn't say a lot as his real teaching was Silence (or rather attentive awareness).
He also spoke to people using very different concepts and pointers (sometimes he contradicted himself in a matter of minutes) - as he obviously knew very well "at which level" a person was and what kind of conceptual interpretation would fit best - makes no sense to tell a child to wear a shoe that only fits an adult...
It happens as such very easily that his comments are used out of context and applied to a situation to which they do not belong.

Anyway, it is human nature to objectify everything as thought can only work with objects and thus we even objectify the Self/Absolute - stating that "something" which exists apart from this realm (which realm?) is the Self is true only for a very specific conceptual scenario (it can be used to point out that all ideas/beliefs, including the ego, are actually unreal in a way that they are all made up, thought up, and are actually never directly experienced) - otherwise stating that "there is only Self" would fit much better (in my opinion).
Yes there is only (one) Self but this teaching can easily shift to solipsism.

While it is experienced that all is Self, there is also recognition that "this" realm can go away while Self remains, like a reflection.

AlexW
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by AlexW » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:06 am

roydop wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:31 pm
While it is experienced that all is Self, there is also recognition that "this" realm can go away while Self remains, like a reflection.
If with "this" realm you refer to objective experience then yes, I agree.

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by AlexW » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:23 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:26 pm
And then quoting Rupert Spira ( The I that KNOWS is the same I that is KNOWN )
I like Rupert, not sure about this quote thought - sounds a bit confusing to me...
Wouldn't it be clearer to say something like "The known is made of knowing"? (knowing = consciousness)

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:45 am

AlexW wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:23 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:26 pm
And then quoting Rupert Spira ( The I that KNOWS is the same I that is KNOWN )
I like Rupert, not sure about this quote thought - sounds a bit confusing to me...
Wouldn't it be clearer to say something like "The known is made of knowing"? (knowing = consciousness)
Rupert's quote to me wasn't confusing, it actually spoke a lot of clarity in my personal opinion.
But I know we're all percievers, although how a particular perception is perceived can be different.

The quote for me was just stating that there is only ONE KNOWER one with itself, and therefore no separate knowers. :D The objective separate knower is already couched withIN the one knowing KNOWER, knowing itself.

.

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by AlexW » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:38 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:45 am
Rupert's quote to me wasn't confusing, it actually spoke a lot of clarity in my personal opinion.
But I know we're all percievers, although how a particular perception is perceived can be different.
Yes, agree - we all interpret things in a different way - what is perfectly clear for one person might be gibberish to another...
Its simply the result of conditioning - everyone is unique (and deep inside still the same :-) ) - how great!

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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:11 pm

AlexW wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:38 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:45 am
Rupert's quote to me wasn't confusing, it actually spoke a lot of clarity in my personal opinion.
But I know we're all percievers, although how a particular perception is perceived can be different.
Yes, agree - we all interpret things in a different way - what is perfectly clear for one person might be gibberish to another...
Its simply the result of conditioning - everyone is unique (and deep inside still the same :-) ) - how great!
Agreed AlexW :D


In every moment of sense perception, the everything and the nothing are one. Many of the ONE.

.

All the same difference.

.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Empty Mindedness Observes Point Space as Foundation of Consciousness

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:28 pm

roydop wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:16 pm
So what do I do with this information?
Simple, if all is connected through space it necessitates a change in perspective (hence moral behavior and decisions) where you view reality and others in a manner the benefits others and yourselves considering both the "I" and the "other" are connected through a common median synonymous to "divine mind".

In a secondary respect if observes order as inevitable as order it grounded in space and space is the grounding of all "being".

Third is allows you to observe a problem from a different context and either eliminate the problem by finding a solution or seeing it as no problem at all because of this different context of perception.

Most "problems" are questions of perception.

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