You are Invisible

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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surreptitious57
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:45 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
If you dont know what Consciousness is or isnt how can you know its temporary ?
I have no idea whether it is temporary or whether it exists but either way it makes absolutely no difference
With or without it I am becoming more detached until my death which will then be total detachment for me

What happens after that is irrelevant because I will no longer be able to experience

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:50 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:45 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
If you dont know what Consciousness is or isnt how can you know its temporary ?
I have no idea whether it is temporary or whether it exists but either way it makes absolutely no difference
With or without it I am becoming more detached until my death which will then be total detachment for me

What happens after that is irrelevant because I will no longer be able to experience
You have never known death.

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:56 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:03 pm

I am just an observer and a very temporary one at that so its not that big a deal
How do you know you are a temporary observer?

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surreptitious57
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:35 am

Dontaskme wrote:
You have never known death
It makes zero difference to me as it is entirely beyond my control
So knowing death or not knowing death are treated just the same

The less energy I actually spend thinking about it the better it is
Because accepting it and just letting it be is where I want to be

surreptitious57
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:46 am

Dontaskme wrote:
How do you know you are a temporary observer ?
This is the default position for me although it might not be true but that doesnt bother me
What matters is that I just let it be and do not hold on to it any more than I really have to
Being wrong doesnt actually matter if you know how to let go so for me it is not a problem

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:35 am
Dontaskme wrote:
You have never known death
It makes zero difference to me as it is entirely beyond my control
So knowing death or not knowing death are treated just the same

The less energy I actually spend thinking about it the better it is
Because accepting it and just letting it be is where I want to be
Knowing or not-knowing is knowledge anyway, knowledge informs.

Knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality, for in reality life is without beginning nor ending.
It's the idea of you that is born and will die, but in reality nothing was ever born so cannot die.

And I agree, that this knowledge makes no difference to what actually IS which is beyond any persons control. Any knowledge or not-knowing about birth and death is not useful to the sense of I and neither does the sense of I care about it, because it's beyond the sense of I's control.

However,for the sense of I ..it's only concerned with knowledge...as knowledge informs..and that's just fine, that's just the way everything plays out.

What is being pointed to in my writings though is ...SOURCE

Take this miraculous apparition for example that are organisms with minds/consciousness (apparent or not) is all pure activity of Source. Whatever is going on, however it appears... necessitates Source.

It's like you can negate every key concept like mind, consciousness, the witness, ultimate subject etc... yet you cannot negate the Source of every known concept, source is this immediate undying, unborn wellspring that has to be..from source to source an endless spring.

That's all I'm pointing to...the realisation that nothing is actually living or dying, everything is just constantly changing it's appearance..but what can the mind do with that information, it clings to the illusion that is knowledge...be that as it may, like you state...let it be what it is.

So again all that's being pointed to is the realisation that for anything to be at all, be it real, unreal, apparent, conceptual, abstract, permanent, shifting etc... including concepts like unconscious and nothingness to have an ontology or meaning... necessitates Source - it's innescapable.

All sorts of ideas and beliefs about reality arise here, but ultimately nothing is known except what knowledge informs. Informing the illusory nature of reality, the coming and goings of appearances forever changing. EVERYTHING being the activity, expression, and flowering of infinte inextinguishable Source.


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surreptitious57
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:52 am

What you describe as Source is for me simply Existence which manifests itself in physical form as the Universe
Everything is connected to everything else and so we cannot think of ourselves as separate from all that exists
We are a part of Existence a part of the Universe which is in a constant state of change since change is eternal
I cannot control this change other than within myself but it doesnt matter because I just accept it for what it is

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Lacewing
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Lacewing » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 am
What is being pointed to in my writings though is ...SOURCE
SOURCE is an idea.
Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 am
ultimately nothing is known except what knowledge informs.
Knowledge and knowing are ideas.
Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 am
Informing the illusory nature of reality, the coming and goings of appearances forever changing. EVERYTHING being the activity, expression, and flowering of infinte inextinguishable Source.
"Informing" is an idea. There is no reason to think that anything is informing anything.

All of these are very limited human concepts, no matter how extraordinary we try to make them sound. Human concepts surely do not describe that which is beyond human concepts...and there surely must be MUCH that is beyond limited human concepts. To claim to know what is beyond human concepts, seems like just another religious way of elevating some people to godly/supreme positions -- an agenda, ripe with ego and need...there's no reason to do it otherwise. It doesn't matter. It has not been demonstrated to provide any more clarity or success for the claimant. It's just more of the same human noise.

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 am
What is being pointed to in my writings though is ...SOURCE
SOURCE is an idea.
Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 am
ultimately nothing is known except what knowledge informs.
Knowledge and knowing are ideas.
That's right, there is here only ideas..what is an idea?...I have no idea.

Knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality, there is no entity/thing here knowing...any knowing is apparent...what is knowing? I don't know.

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
"Informing" is an idea. There is no reason to think that anything is informing anything.
To think that any thing is informing anything is itself another thought, it's an idea....what is an idea? I have no idea.
Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
All of these are very limited human concepts, no matter how extraordinary we try to make them sound.
Yes, they are all concepts/ideas/beliefs....a concept is an illusion of sound heard as words with meaning that nothing is making happen. When the word is uttered I am talking....I am believing, I have an idea...that I am...is also an idea. What is an idea? I have no idea.

I AM ..is...but I do not know what or who I am except what I imagine, make up as an idea. I have no image of myself except what I project onto myself.

This is what is meant by SOURCE... source can only ever be a first person singular pronoun. . . what appears to that first person singular pronoun is what creates that first person in the same instant...else there is NOTHING HERE..knower and known are one in the same intantaneous moment...aka not-knowing consciousness. Aka The mirror reflecting / projecting / conceiving only itself.

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
Human concepts surely do not describe that which is beyond human concepts...
Human is a concept known, a known concept knows nothing. Human is a known concept. That which is known knows nothing, human is an idea, what is an idea? I have no idea. Where and to whom this idea is arising ? I have no idea except what I aka (not-knowing knowing known) conceive, via concept/knowledge, the knowing.

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
and there surely must be MUCH that is beyond limited human concepts.
There is nothing beyond a concept, nothing beyond knowledge or language. It's concepts all the way down.
As soon as the imagination tries to cross the horizon it will take it's concepts with it, where ever you go there you are...what are you? I have no idea except in this conception, what I conceive myself to be.

You can never cross the horizon, because there isn't one. There is only herenow, nowhere everywhere and nowhere, that never moved an inch.
Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
To claim to know what is beyond human concepts, seems like just another religious way of elevating some people to godly/supreme positions -- an agenda, ripe with ego and need...there's no reason to do it otherwise.
No one is ever claiming they know, there is no thing knowing anything, if you say you know, you don't.

The known is known by not-knowing. All knowing is not knowing knowing. First person singular pronoun, in other words, one unitary action.

There is no thing doing anything including having this discussion, it's just no one doing. Nothing is making this discussion about discussion unfold.
No one is speaking or doing anything. There is no one reasoning for anything and yet reasoning apparently appears, but no one is reasoning or doing anything...yet it appears so.
Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 am
It doesn't matter. It has not been demonstrated to provide any more clarity or success for the claimant. It's just more of the same human noise.
Yes, in a nutshell, you are right because there is no claimer here, except the concept, the idea, the belief.
No claim, no blame, no shame.

It is what is it, this is it...what is it...I have no idea except what I make up, believe as imagined...

.

Clarity is just moving beyond the belief structure imposed upon you by other that you exist here and they exist over there..you move from that belief to the realisation there is no other here, there is only what I HERE project ''out there''...there is just nothing and everything...same ONE.
It's dying before you die...are you willing to die right now LW?
If not, then you'll just continue to make a noise just to ATTRACT your own attention...woof woof!!

.

.

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:33 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:52 am
What you describe as Source is for me simply Existence which manifests itself in physical form as the Universe
There is nothing here that is physical except the concept imposed upon it by nothing.

Nothing is physical.

Nothing physical dies, because nothing physical was born.

Nothing is being born or dying except the concept.

Everything and Nothing is forever changing, being in contant flux infinitely for eternity.

There is no fixed entity that exists in and of itself.


What appears to change never changes...because there is nothing changing.

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Lacewing
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Lacewing » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:26 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm
...
So you've just said a whole lot of nothing. :D
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm
are you willing to die right now LW?
I am not afraid for the body to die. I do not have a sense of anything else that I am trying to protect.
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm
If not, then you'll just continue to make a noise just to ATTRACT your own attention...woof woof!!
This sounds like you. :lol: So much noise going in circles. I keep wondering how dizzy it makes you.

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:34 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:26 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm
...
So you've just said a whole lot of nothing. :D
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm
are you willing to die right now LW?
I am not afraid for the body to die. I do not have a sense of anything else that I am trying to protect.
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 pm
If not, then you'll just continue to make a noise just to ATTRACT your own attention...woof woof!!
This sounds like you. :lol: So much noise going in circles. I keep wondering how dizzy it makes you.
It doesn't make me dizzy LW.. I've learnt to stay in the centre, and just let the whirling around me whirl to it's hearts content, doesn't effect the centre.

There is a place of perfect peace, but no one/thing lives there.

.

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Lacewing
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Lacewing » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:55 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:34 pm
It doesn't make me dizzy LW.. I've learnt to stay in the centre, and just let the whirling around me whirl to it's hearts content, doesn't effect the centre.

There is a place of perfect peace, but no one/thing lives there.
Then why do you have so much to say... while contradicting those words with more words? It sounds like spinning mindless babble. What is at the "center" creating that?

You realize you ARE the whirling, right? What ELSE would be creating it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:09 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:55 pm
Then why do you have so much to say... while contradicting those words with more words? It sounds like spinning mindless babble. What is at the "center" creating that?
Nothing. Not-a-thing.
Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:55 pm
You realize you ARE the whirling, right? What ELSE would be creating it?
There's just whirling or not whirling. Anything that whirls creates a centre, else no whirl would form, similarly, no centre would form without the whirl...they are one in the same instant, therefore, it could be said that the centre is everywhere while the circumfrence is nowhere. Creation and Creator both are the same ONE everywhere and nowhere, nothing and everything.

ONENESS dancing with itself. It's a divine paradox.

.

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Lacewing
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Re: You are Invisible

Post by Lacewing » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:24 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Lacewing wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:55 pm
Then why do you have so much to say... while contradicting those words with more words? It sounds like spinning mindless babble. What is at the "center" creating that?
Nothing. Not-a-thing.
This is how you've decided to repeatedly frame it, such that you have no responsibility for anything. You just keep saying over and over that there is nothing doing anything...yet you keep creating all that you claim is not there. Your actions do not fit your words. You've simply settled on some IDEA as a way to explain and excuse everything. Your charade is invisible... you can be seen behind the door, working the mechanisms. I ask why are you doing that, and you claim there is no one there. It's absurd, and it's a lie. If you have so much to say, it would be honorable for you to acknowledge and take ownership of that. No one else is speaking it except you...and it IS being spoken. It is cowardly and dishonest to dart away and say no one is speaking and nothing is being said.

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