Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Speakpigeon
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by Speakpigeon » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:45 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
Knowledge is inter subjectivity supported by evidence that is sufficient enough to be acceptable
How "inter subjectivity" is supposed to work? Do you read the mind of other people?
What is "evidence" exactly?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
The quality of evidence is determined by how rigorously it is subjected to the scientific method
I'm asking here whether you think you know that the Moon exists... So, what evidence do you personally have that the Moon exists?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
The greater the inter subjectivity and quality of evidence the more legitimate the knowledge claim
Does this mean you think it's not legitimate for you to claim to know that the Moon exists?
Does this mean you think it's not legitimate for you to claim to know that you are in pain whenever you are in pain?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
No knowledge claim can be treated as absolute unless it results in disproof / falsification
???
Sorry, you're no making sense here. Could you clarify?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
Disproving / falsifying something is far easier than proving it which could be impossible
Could you or anyone falsify my claim that I'm thinking about going for a walk?
Could you or anyone falsify my claim that I know pain whenever I feel pain?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
It only takes one black swan to disprove / falsify the statement : all swans are white
Does anyone knows anything at all?
Ok, let's assume we all know a few things.
For example, let's assume it's a fact that John knows that the Moon exists.
Given this, is it at all possible do you think to falsify the fact that John knows that the Moon exists?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 pm
It would require knowledge of every swan that had ever existed to prove it however
And presumably we don't know all swans that have ever existed...
But more importantly for falsification, we presumably don't know any swan that will only exist in the future.
So, how could we possibly claim to know things like "all swans are white"?
EB

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Speakpigeon
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Re:

Post by Speakpigeon » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:09 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:11 pm
"So, what's the point of talking of knowledge at all."
Good question. Me: I don't...usually...mostly... ;)
Well, you are, here.
henry quirk wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:11 pm
"Can't we just say that we believe stuff and leave it at that?"
Works for me.

but i still know the moon is real
OK, so how do you think you know that the Moon is real?
EB

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henry quirk
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"OK, so how do you think you know that the Moon is real?"

Post by henry quirk » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:21 pm

explained that up-thread

Age
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by Age » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:32 pm

Speakpigeon wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:23 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:49 am
Speakpigeon wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:12 pm

Ok, so, is there anything you know?
Yes, the thoughts within this head.
That's something surely Descartes would have approved of
So, presumably, you don't think you know you have a head?
EB
That is a very presumptive question, which is a completely wrong question to ask, to me anyway. (Asking if I do NOT think that I KNOW some thing, implies that what you are asking I KNOW is an absolute FACT.)

Do you ASSUME the 'you' is a 'head'? If you do, then do you also ASSUME that 'you' are a head is an absolute FACT?

If you want to know what to become aware of what the actual thoughts are within this head, then just ask Truly OPEN questions instead.

roydop
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by roydop » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:42 am

If you look at the moon and the thought "moon" does not arise, there is no moon in your world.

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:02 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
How inter subjectivity is supposed to work ? Do you read the mind of other people ?
Inter subjectivity is consensus arrived at through evidence so no telepathy is required

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:08 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
What is evidence exactly ?
Anything which is observable or physical and therefore has property or dimension
And which can be subject to investigation / examination by the scientific method

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:12 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
what evidence do you personally have that the Moon exists ?
Observation / photographs / video / gravity / tides / eclipses

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:16 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
Does this mean you think its not legitimate for you to claim to know that the Moon exists ?
Does this mean you think its not legitimate for you to claim to know you are in pain when you are in pain ?
No because consensus regarding the existence of the Moon can be arrived at through evidence
No because it is something I will know even if it cannot be confirmed through inter subjectivity

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:31 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
Sorry you re not making sense here
One black swan falsifies the claim that all swans are white

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:34 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
Could you or anyone falsify my claim that I am thinking about going for a walk ?
Could you or anyone falsify my claim that I know pain whenever I feel pain ?
No because mental states cannot be subject to falsification

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:39 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
Does anyone knows anything at all ?
Ok lets assume we all know a few things
For example lets assume its a fact that John knows that the Moon exists
Given this is it at all possible do you think to falsify the fact that John knows that the Moon exists ?
Whether anyone knows anything depends on how knowledge is defined
You cannot falsify a fact because they are non falsifiable by definition

surreptitious57
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:46 am

Speakpigeon wrote:
And presumably we dont know all swans that have ever existed
But more importantly for falsification we presumably dont know any swan that will only exist in the future
So how could we possibly claim to know things like all swans are white ?
All swans are not white so knowledge of everyone that has ever or will ever exist is therefore not necessary
One black swan is all that is needed to falsify the claim that all swans are white and so it has been falsified

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Speakpigeon
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by Speakpigeon » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:18 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:02 am
Speakpigeon wrote: How inter subjectivity is supposed to work ? Do you read the mind of other people ?
Inter subjectivity is consensus arrived at through evidence so no telepathy is required
So it seems inter-subjectivity is ultimately founded on subjectivity
EB

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Speakpigeon
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Re: Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

Post by Speakpigeon » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:22 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:08 am
Speakpigeon wrote: What is evidence exactly ?
Anything which is observable or physical and therefore has property or dimension
And which can be subject to investigation / examination by the scientific method[/quote]
So pain, as the subjective quality of painfulness, cannot be evidenced.
So, you can't know it.
EB

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