Do you think you know that the Moon exists?

[Speakpigeon]

Which complexity-class do you think your question falls under?

Tell me, smart boy.
EB

[Speakpigeon]

What you are describing aka a 'Moon' is knowledge, it's a concept known. There is nothing outside of knowledge, language, that can be known. There is no 'your' mind, or any thing outside of mind.. there is only mind and the contents..ie: thoughts, knowledge etc. The mind cannot be conceived of, for it is the source of conception.As the Unknowable, Knowing is known. The Moon is an object. All objects 'exist' only as mental conceptions within the knowing which is one with Consciousness. There is nothing outside of Consciousness. Consciousness does not experience directly an external world out there, because there is no external world apart from Consciousness itself.

Thanks for the Revelations.
EB

[Speakpigeon]

You are an incredibly stupid person. You have compartmentalized your mind to a level where you can't even think straight. You asked a question. I have to consider the question in context. Extract meaning. Understand what you want from me. You don't think I need an analytical tool to do all of those things? If I can't extract meaning from your question - how do you expect me to give you an answer? Flip a coin? I drew a picture for you. Is the information contained in the drawing insufficient to help you answer your own question?

No need to worry, son, it was just an innocent question. You can't answer it? Don't answer it and no more "complex" decision problem.
But you ain't going to change my question.
EB

[AlexW]

If you can't demonstrate a difference that I can see you must be deluded

It’s not up to me to make you see the difference, you have to see it, I can only lead you to the place where you can see it, but it’s you who has to be willing to open your eyes.

[Logik]

It’s not up to me to make you see the difference, you have to see it, I can only lead you to the place where you can see it, but it’s you who has to be willing to open your eyes.

My eyes are literally open. I am literally looking. And I am not seeing anything.

It's one of us who doesn't understand how this science thing works, and I think it's you.

You literally need to juxtapose what I would observe if you were "drinking water with respect" and what I would observer if you were "drinking water without respect".

If the difference is only your attitude towards it with no practical difference... Shame.

[AlexW]

You literally need to juxtapose what I would observe if you were "drinking water with respect" and what I would observer if you were "drinking water without respect".

If the difference is only your attitude towards it with no practical difference... Shame.

Doing something with respect, drinking water or whatever else, is doing it with attention, being fully aware of doing it.
When you drink water, you can either be aware of its taste, of it running cool down your throat and quenching your thirst or you can be oblivious to it - you can be in your head and think about the next task.
Most people are in their head 99.99% percent of their time, thats why they cant respect anything that is going on around them - where are you? Are you here/now or in your head?

If you were here/now you wouldn't have to ask about the difference of "drinking water with respect" and "drinking water without respect" - it would be perfectly clear to you. Maybe it is clearer now? Maybe give it a try - be more present/aware and see what actually happens.

[Logik]

You literally need to juxtapose what I would observe if you were "drinking water with respect" and what I would observer if you were "drinking water without respect".

If the difference is only your attitude towards it with no practical difference... Shame.

Doing something with respect, drinking water or whatever else, is doing it with attention, being fully aware of doing it.
When you drink water, you can either be aware of its taste, of it running cool down your throat and quenching your thirst or you can be oblivious to it - you can be in your head and think about the next task.
Most people are in their head 99.99% percent of their time, thats why they cant respect anything that is going on around them - where are you? Are you here/now or in your head?

If you were here/now you wouldn't have to ask about the difference of "drinking water with respect" and "drinking water without respect" - it would be perfectly clear to you. Maybe it is clearer now? Maybe give it a try - be more present/aware and see what actually happens.

No, The point seems to have gone entirely over your head.

By what mechanism does "drinking water with respect", or "drinking water being fully aware doing it", or "being aware of water's taste running down your throat" result in reducing water pollution, or water consumption, or water waste?

The appears to be no causal connection between "respect" (paying attention) and the outcomes you desire.

How can there be? I can no more save water by paying attention to it than I can lift a bowling ball with my gaze.

Wishful thinking is what you are doing...

[AlexW]

The appears to be no causal connection between "respect" (paying attention) and the outcomes you desire.

How can there be?

Try it and you will see. You can keep on arguing as long as you want, you can also keep on living in your blackbox, or you can practice being aware of what's actually happing now. After a little while you will see that being aware leads to "right action" - while being unaware (living in your head) results in the opposite, simply because you don't see what you see when you are knowingly present.

[Logik]

The appears to be no causal connection between "respect" (paying attention) and the outcomes you desire.

How can there be?

Try it and you will see. You can keep on arguing as long as you want, you can also keep on living in your blackbox, or you can practice being aware of what's actually happing now. After a little while you will see that being aware leads to "right action" - while being unaware (living in your head) results in the opposite, simply because you don't see what you see when you are knowingly present.

I tried it. It didn't work.

Rather than preaching awareness maybe you can just tell us what the "right action" is?

[AlexW]

I tried it. It didn't work.

For 5 seconds? This is not something you try for a minute, an hour or even a day - it has to become a way of life.
Right now you seem to live your life in your head, but this is not where it is actually happening...

maybe you can just tell us what the "right action" is?

It comes naturally - being aware results in right action. Its not something you can practice by thinking really hard.
An action is right if it is a natural response to the situation at hand - its natural if it is in tune with how reality - and ultimately your self - works.
Awareness will reveal to you that you are actually not separate from the world out there, not separate from "others" and also not separate from the "water" we have been discussing before.

This is the reason why the bible states: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"
How would that be possible? You cant do it by thinking about it and trying really hard mentally.
But it comes naturally if you are aware that "thy neighbour IS thyself".

[Logik]

I tried it. It didn't work.

For 5 seconds? This is not something you try for a minute, an hour or even a day - it has to become a way of life.
Right now you seem to live your life in your head, but this is not where it is actually happening...

maybe you can just tell us what the "right action" is?

It comes naturally - being aware results in right action. Its not something you can practice by thinking really hard.
An action is right if it is a natural response to the situation at hand - its natural if it is in tune with how reality - and ultimately your self - works.
Awareness will reveal to you that you are actually not separate from the world out there, not separate from "others" and also not separate from the "water" we have been discussing before.

This is the reason why the bible states: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"
How would that be possible? You cant do it by thinking about it and trying really hard mentally.
But it comes naturally if you are aware that "thy neighbour IS thyself".

Surely you can give me an example of a "right action" rather than just keep repeating yourself?

[AlexW]

Surely you can give me an example of a "right action" rather than just keep repeating yourself?

I can give you even two:
The wind blows, the bamboo bends.
I chew my food before I swallow.

[Logik]

Surely you can give me an example of a "right action" rather than just keep repeating yourself?

I can give you even two:
The wind blows, the bamboo bends.
I chew my food before I swallow.

And that saves water? ok... Bye now. You've wasted enough of my time.

[AlexW]

Bye now.

Bye.

[Logik]

Which complexity-class do you think your question falls under?

Tell me, smart boy.
EB

I don't know!

It's your question. Do you want me to tell you what you want for breakfast also?