Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 am
Actually I have been drawing many pictures with words the whole time.
This is called the illusion of transparency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_transparency
The pictures are in your head. The words that you utter do not communicate the picture.
The pictures I drew moved the picture from my head to your head.
Words can't (always) do that.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 am
You forget the thousands of hours of programming just to get to that point...something a kid could have drawn in the sand.
You are still straw-manning the argument.
No kid in China can communicate with a kid in the USA through sand drawings.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
So what you are saying is all this work is so some stranger can send me pictures of squiggly lines?
ALL this work? How quickly you forget all the examples from the field of bionics.
It's but one example of how computation makes human life better. It makes communication across vast distances and cultures easier!
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
It is simple the same imagination which created the computer's will be the same imagination which will help us not need them and over come other issues.
These are just empty words. HOW?
Via what mechanism is the idea in the Chinese kid's head going to move into the American kid's head?
If it's not telepathy it has to be SOMETHING.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
Tell me why a kid from China would "need", not "want", to communicate with a kid from the US when both kids are surrounded by communities which need them?
So why are you communicating with me now? Go back to the community that needs you.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:54 pm
Ahh...but that is not what you are arguing you are saying English cannot do what math can...one is not better than the other.
Yes. English cannot do what Math can. Math cannot do what English can, but the things you learn from Math you can apply to all communication. In any language.
Because the concepts of communication and information are more fundamental than their English definitions. Concepts are fundamental. Not logic.
But logic helps you express new concepts.
When you understand Lambda calculus at the intuitive level that I do, you begin to see how fucked up English is. It's messy and disorganized. It lacks structure or symmetry. It's inefficient! It's why human minds are a chaos.
I need Lambda calculus to organize my own mind. To structure the chaos caused by the wrecking ball that is English.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:54 pm
Yes because they count in there native language. As a matter of fact, most people don't need to learn math anymore. They have machines to count change for you...do you see my point?
The value of Math is learning new concepts. Because truth is conceptual first and foremost.
Irrespective of the language we all speak at conceptual level the phenomenology of experience (pain) is universal to all humans.
Our shared language is experience. Our tool for communication is the spoken language.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
That is quite pointless, you keep talking about how computing allows us to send pictures...but so what?
Communication is moving of information from A to B. From your mind to my mind.
Choosing the medium via which to communicate makes all the difference to success or failure.
Our conversation would not have needed to take place because I would not have had to deal with people staring at phones in front of me all day.
[/quote]
As somebody who experienced both worlds (pre-phones and post-phones), let me tell you there's nothing more tedious than hanging out with people you have NOTHING in common other than that you live in the same community. If it wasn't about phones it was about fucking bitches, getting pissed and taking drugs.
Fuck that. It took me 10 years to find my tribe. I found it in 6 months when I discovered the internet. Global communities with shared interests, purpose and vision.
Phones are not the cause - they are the symptom. They are just another form of escapism. If a person is trying to escape reality - they will find a way.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
All the problems you claim to "fix" are either made up or equivalent to plugging holes in a boat where another leak springs to take its place.
All I am claiming is that the boat is sinking much slower now than it was sinking 2000 years ago.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
And what good is living a fast life at the expense of taking time?
Symptom vs cause...
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
Yes...and what it shows is the glitch in all your work is the human condition.
Yes. That is not a new observation. The Bible already told us that 2000 years ago. Romans 3:10
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
That is why you will have failed.
It's work-in-progress. How is it a failure?
If man is product of his environment, and the environment we come from was "the law of nature" and "survival of the fittest", then our attempts to build a better society, better environment for ourselves, so that animal instincts are kept at bay.
The very attempt to build a civilized society is our human undertaking to overcome our nature.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
See my point, all your work is just a dick measuring contest. It has no value.
Till you give me a year and a country in which you would rather live in, I am not buying your bullshit.
We are either going in the right direction (even if it's not moving as fast as we would like) or we aren't.
You keep insisting that "people like me" are making worse, so I am still waiting for the year and country in which things were better than they are today. You seem to be struggling with examples...
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
Actually you did not define the curves in mathematics...they where translated from mathematics. No different than them being translated from English as "x length", "x height", "grade of curve", etc. (with mathematics existing in standard language as well)
Observe the important distinction. The masturbation that is philosophy is always about (mis?)interpretation of that which we see/experience/observe.
The problem Philosophy has been trying to solve (unsuccessfully) is consistent interpretation.
I expressed a thought that an entity other myself (a computer) can interpret EXACTLY as I intended it to be interpreted.
I have materialized my thoughts into being using LANGUAGE. The computer turned it into a picture.
That is determinism at its finest.
You can't do the same with any other language. You can do it with a stick and some sand, but not with symbols!
I can do it with symbols!
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
That is why you are the problem...you create problems which do not exist (such as the one above) and then have to justify why people need you...when they don't.
OK. I demand that you log off, delete your account and turn off your computer. Burn it!
Do you have a cellphone? Post the burning of the Evil Computer on Youtube.
I also demand that you cut off your power! Back to the wonderful dark ages - where we had "less problems"!
Don't talk! DO!
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
You lie to them and tell them what is needed by creating a false problem.
THE fuck? Did anybody force the internet upon you? It grew exponentially in the 90s! Before that it was a dead-end experiment which had been running for 30 years between a bunch of universities.
You are chasing ghosts. Nobody told anybody anything. In the 70s Apple became a multi-million dollar company from running a startup in a garage. Do you think they went around houses forcing computers down everybody's throat?
People bought these things. With their own hard-earned cash!
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
Computer programming is pure empty sophistry. It creates illusions through a made up language.
OK. Since you are about to burn your computer, how do you propose we continue this conversation?
Also. Can you give me an example of a language that isn't "made up"?
For somebody who claims to hate the Aristotelian religion, you sure love your Law of Excluded middle and the false dichotomies it produces.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
You offer nothing but lies, literally...lies. A virtual, unreal, world of no substance or value or meaning.
No, I am not. I offered you a new tool.
I also offered you the option to burn it if you don't like it.
Put your money where your mouth is - Youtube live stream!
Burn that motherfucker. As to how you are going to burn Lambda calculus from the human body of knowledge - I have no idea....
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
Yawn...I just said the question is faulty. First all langauge is symbolic in nature, hence the curve is its own answer. Second They cannot be describe through a computer as the curves measurements would change from one screen to another. If it was drawn in the sand, or on a wall, where the context was not changing...measurements could be applied and the curved described.
Oh really? How is a drawing on the sand different from a digital one?
Why is sand a better medium than a computer screen?
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
The most I could do is say it was of "x length" "y grade" "x wavelengths", etc. relative to a computer screen of "x" dimensions...and the fact you cannot see this just means I would make it up.
If you were intending to lie to me you could have drawn a square when you meant a triangle. On the sand and everything.
The computer isn't at fault. You are.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:22 pm
All the "tests" you create...do not work...they are irrational.
You don't have any conception of rationality that I would respect.
In one breath you recognize that everything is a human problem.
In another you externalize blame to inanimate objects.
You want to have your cake and eat it too.
You know what the problem is? Symbols! Symbols are the problem! All these asshole mathematicians working on wall street stealing our money. Using crazy mathematics running on super-fast computers! They are stealing using MATHEMATICS!
Ban Mathematics! Ban Language!
Those lying politicians using WORDS to deceive us! Ban language! Burn it all! Burn it to the ground and start anew!
If you act on that impulse - society will not let you... We will not let you destroy that which we have built, just because you think you can do it better from scratch.
You are not smarter than the billions before you.