Perception and Consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:57 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:16 pm
OK. I am out at this point :)
You cannot out of what you were never in.
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:16 pm
There's no use for me staying in your Solipsist dream.
But you are not in my dream, you are only ever in your dream.

You are consciousness.

Without consciousness there is no dream to be aware of, and yet the dream is, so there must also be consciousness present to be aware of the dream, both the dreamer and the dreaming and the dreamt are all one in the same instant, the dream of life is manifesting all at once instantaneously NOW

This is a big mindfuck for the illusory sense of self.

The seer that sees a nightly dream is the same seer that see the waking dream, the real dream and the illusory dream just differ in their appearance that's all...there really is no difference there because all appearances are occuring in the same PLACE...namely here now, the eternal NOW the only place and time there is.

Read the power of Now...by ET


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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:03 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:51 pm

But it is VERY easy to see other people's brains!
But that looking at another brain still needs a consciousness to see it....the other brain is still an appearance in consciousness, not the actual source of consciousness...no one has ever seen consciousness inside another persons brain.

If consciousnesses were owned separately by brains, then your still left with the problem of separating out the dividing line factor? where is the dividing line that separates the consciousness that is looking at another persons brain and the consciousness that is in that other brain?



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Dontaskme
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:09 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:51 pm
Another solipsist?
Who told you ..you were a solipsist?

You cannot know another until you know yourself.

And when you know yourself, only then will you know other...to be yourself.

That's what projection is...it's the nondual awareness aware of itself as duality.

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Logik
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:12 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:09 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:51 pm
Another solipsist?
Who told you ..you were a solipsist?

You cannot know another until you know yourself.

And when you know yourself, only then will you know other...to be yourself.

That's what projection is...it's the nondual awareness aware of itself as duality.

.
Good. Now that you've figured it out - are you ready to slip out of the Solipsist dream?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:12 pm
Good. Now that you've figured it out - are you ready to slip out of the Solipsist dream?
Ask yourself.

The answer is already in the question.

So no consciousness in a brain...sorry!

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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:25 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:12 pm
Good. Now that you've figured it out - are you ready to slip out of the Solipsist dream?


You cannot be consciousness looking at an object called a brain.. and then be in that brain at the same time, that would imply there are two of you. One looking from the outside of the brain and the other looking from the inside of the brain.

Outside and Inside are concepts, they don't actually exist, there is no thing outside or inside of consciousness, there is only consciousness.

You cannot experience yourself as a brain, a brain is an object, objects are not conscious, only consciousness is conscious, and the brain is a conceptual known of consciousness the only knowing there is.

You are the One looking at the brain, but you are not in the brain...the brain is known, because it's an objective concept arising in your consciousness known only by that consciousness...and not by the object, because the object has no reality separate from the consciousness it's appearing in.

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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:19 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:51 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:49 pm
It's just funny that everyone reverts back to a metaphysical brain that according to some concept is somehow responsible for creating consciousness..and everything else. Where IS this brain occurring? If everything I'm perceiving is being perceived in a brain then where is this brain?
Another solipsist?

It is very fucking tricky to see your own brain. For medical AND practical reasons.

But it is VERY easy to see other people's brains!

A brain can be seen, but consciousness cannot be seen.

So to be able to see a brain, there has to be a seer present to see that brain and that seeing is consciousness. Consciousness has to be first.

You can't say the brain creates the seer, because the brain would then be the seer that you already are prior to seeing it, so the seer cannot be in the brain, because the last time I looked at a brain I could not see my consciousness in that brain, or any other persons brain, I could only see the brain. You have to get out of your brain to see that you don't need a brain to know you are conscious...you are first and foremost consciousness before you ever clapped eyes on a brain.

So the seen brain must be appearing, emerging within the consciousness seer, and not the other way around, where the seer consciousness is an appearance, emergence within the seen brain. ..because that which is seen cannot see...anything seen is the looked upon...not the thing that is looking...do you see that?

So even if you are looking at your own brain on a MRI machine, you are still only looking at an image of your brain, you still cannot see consciousness is a by-product, emergence of that brain...so your consciousness is never in the image seen, the image seen is always occuring in your consciousness. A consciousness that has no image of itself, because all images are illusions of the same light occuring within itself appearing to itself...so then what the mind does..is it takes on the shape of the images and says I am those images because it's got no image of itself....it gets lost in the dream and thinks the image is who and what it is.. when it's much much more than that...because there is nothing in an image, just as there is nothing in a painting or a movie.

Do you see the dilemma here?

Consciousness has never been born, so it cannot die..it is uncreated so cannot disappear upon death ...no one has consciousness, there is only consciousness. You are that. You are infinite formless consciousness.

Birth and death are concepts within the illusory dream of separation, known only by consciousness. The truth is you have never been born, so you cannot die.

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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Ramu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:07 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:51 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:49 pm
It's just funny that everyone reverts back to a metaphysical brain that according to some concept is somehow responsible for creating consciousness..and everything else. Where IS this brain occurring? If everything I'm perceiving is being perceived in a brain then where is this brain?
Another solipsist?

It is very fucking tricky to see your own brain. For medical AND practical reasons.

But it is VERY easy to see other people's brains!
Which are mere appearances and doesn't prove anything

Logik
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:23 pm

Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:07 pm
Which are mere appearances and doesn't prove anything
Well what do you expect a brain to appear like? A unicorn?

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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:34 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:23 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:07 pm
Which are mere appearances and doesn't prove anything
Well what do you expect a brain to appear like? A unicorn?

The appearance of a brain is never a unicorn, it's always a brain ...that's like saying an apple is an orange. Concepts are fixed in that respect, the concept apple can never be the concept orange..so what are you trying to prove now with this ridiculous statement?


Let's hear it Mr Logik?

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Ramu
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Ramu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:40 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:34 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:23 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:07 pm
Which are mere appearances and doesn't prove anything
Well what do you expect a brain to appear like? A unicorn?

The appearance of a brain is never a unicorn, it's always a brain ...that's like saying an apple is an orange. Concepts are fixed in that respect, the concept apple can never be the concept orange..so what are you trying to prove now with this ridiculous statement?


Let's hear it Mr Logik?
Let's start over Logik.....what is the one thing about you that has never changed and remains constant?
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Logik
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:46 pm

Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:40 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:34 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:23 pm

Well what do you expect a brain to appear like? A unicorn?

The appearance of a brain is never a unicorn, it's always a brain ...that's like saying an apple is an orange. Concepts are fixed in that respect, the concept apple can never be the concept orange..so what are you trying to prove now with this ridiculous statement?


Let's hear it Mr Logik?
Let's start over Logik.....what is the one thing about you that has never changed and remains constant?
.
I am trying to determine what you expect a valid proof to look like.

If going to a hospital. into a theater room, while an open-brain neurosurgery is underway. You can see a brain with your own eyes.
You can see a doctor touching it...

You asked "WHere is this brain occurring?" It's in your skull.

If that doesn't convince you - I am not sure what proof you expect.

Ramu
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Ramu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:54 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:46 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:40 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:34 pm



The appearance of a brain is never a unicorn, it's always a brain ...that's like saying an apple is an orange. Concepts are fixed in that respect, the concept apple can never be the concept orange..so what are you trying to prove now with this ridiculous statement?


Let's hear it Mr Logik?
Let's start over Logik.....what is the one thing about you that has never changed and remains constant?
.
I am trying to determine what you expect a valid proof to look like.

If going to a hospital. into a theater room, while an open-brain neurosurgery is underway. You can see a brain with your own eyes.
You can see a doctor touching it...

You asked "WHere is this brain occurring?" It's in your skull.

If that doesn't convince you - I am not sure what proof you expect.
Which is merely an appearance and cannot perceive itself...as it is an object....but what has remained constant has been your Awareness....everything has changed except Consciousness...your True Self

Logik
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:57 pm

Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:54 pm
Which is merely an appearance and cannot perceive itself...
It is not perceiving itself. It is perceiving another brain.

There are 8 billion humans on this planet. There are 8 billion minus 1 brains to be perceived.

If the other 7 999 999 999 people have brains then chances are you do to.

Ramu
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Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Ramu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:00 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:57 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:54 pm
Which is merely an appearance and cannot perceive itself...
It is not perceiving itself. It is perceiving another brain.

There are 8 billion humans on this planet. There are 8 billion minus 1 brains to be perceived.

If 7 999 999 999 people have brains then chances are you do to.
And not one of them is generating consciousness. Consciousness is first order. Brains occur within it.

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