Perception and Consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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AlexW
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by AlexW » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:07 am

Logik wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:28 am
When you find out that there is nothing extrinsic to give your life meaning you begin searching for intrinsic reasons. You begin walking the path of knowing thyself. What lies down that path? Only questions! Little answers.
Yes, true.
This is why certain paths - eg Advaita Vedanta - use the neti-neti approach to take people away from the idea that thought can provide the ultimate answer to the question "Who am I?".
Logik wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:28 am
Eventually you have to ask your question "So why should I be happy if life is objectively meaningless?".
Because you can! Enjoy it for what it is! Meaningless! And simply do that which brings joy to you and to others!
Yes, agree - partially... I doubt people can be happy (temporally yes, but not consistently) without knowing who they are and, most importantly, live life accordingly.
Simply deciding/thinking "I might as well be happy" is nice and good, but does it work? I doubt it... Does it work for you?

Logik
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:12 am

AlexW wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:07 am
Yes, true.
This is why certain paths - eg Advaita Vedanta - use the neti-neti approach to take people away from the idea that thought can provide the ultimate answer to the question "Who am I?".
And you will find me answering this question with "I am Logik" on more than one occasion.

I think all ontological questions are errors with regards to philosophy. We cannot answer such questions with science.
All we can answer is how things behave and interact and what consequences follow from such interactions.
Logik wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:28 am
Yes, agree - partially... I doubt people can be happy (temporally yes, but not consistently) without knowing who they are and, most importantly, live life accordingly.
Simply deciding/thinking "I might as well be happy" is nice and good, but does it work? I doubt it... Does it work for you?
Ironically, the only quote that comes to mind to the question of "Who am I?" is one from Batman.

It's not who you are underneath - it's what you do that defines you.

Find a purpose that brings joy to you and those around you and commit your life to it.
It absolutely works for me. I have my life's purpose and I have enough work for a 100 life times....

Where to start?!? :)

surreptitious57
Posts: 2922
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:22 am

Logic wrote:
I think all ontological questions are errors with regards to philosophy . We cannot answer such questions with science
All we can answer is how things behave and interact and what consequences follow from such interactions
Ontological questions are not errors with regard to philosophy even though it will not be able to systematically answer any of them
You can find something that may satisfy you personally but it will be entirely subjective and therefore not a general answer as such

Logik
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:29 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:22 am
Ontological questions are not errors with regard to philosophy even though it will not be able to systematically answer any of them
You can find something that may satisfy you personally but it will be entirely subjective and therefore not a general answer as such
If you don't know that ontological questions cannot be answered, but you ask them anyway thinking there is a gold pot at the end of that road you are setting yourself up for failure!

And so if you are aware of this pitfall - go right ahead and ask such questions. You are making an informed choice - you are choosing to pay the price.
The risk is worth the reward.

Please allow others the opportunity to make make informed choices before they sink their precious time into dead-ends.

Philosophy needs a massive warning label on the front. Like cigarette boxes.

surreptitious57
Posts: 2922
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:42 am

Human beings have been asking ontological questions since forever because they need specific answers to their random meaningless existence
It is the reason why religion exists but I have no need for it myself and I am instead looking forward to being dead forever when I do finally go

Logik
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:13 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:42 am
Human beings have been asking ontological questions since forever because they need specific answers to their random meaningless existence
It is the reason why religion exists but I have no need for it myself and I am instead looking forward to being dead forever when I do finally go
So you asked ontological/philosophical questions and you look forward to being dead.
I asked scientific/introspective questions and I wish I could live forever.

Way to make my point about warning labels on philosophy?
A nation is born stoic, and dies epicurean. At its cradle (to repeat a thoughtful adage) religion stands, and philosophy accompanies it to the grave. -- Will Durant
So you will forgive me if I have found meaning in the religion of Humanism :)

And this is where I MUST interject because many atheists proudly proclaim themselves as 'secular humanists'. If you need to put an adjective before "Humanist" - I have some fucking bad news for you.... If you are a 'secular humanist' you are part of the problem, not the solution.

surreptitious57
Posts: 2922
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:44 am

Logic wrote:
So you asked ontological / philosophical questions and you look forward to being dead
I asked scientific / introspective questions and I wish I could live forever
So I win and you lose because I will die but you will not live forever
Death to me is just a transition and so it does not really bother me

By the way are you REALLY sure you want to live forever ?
It does sound great in theory but what about in actuality ?

Logik
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:52 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:44 am
So I win and you lose because I will die but you will not live forever
Death to me is just a transition and so it does not really bother me
It doesn't bother me either. Which is why I pay no attention to dying and focus on living.

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:44 am
By the way are you REALLY sure you want to live forever ?
It does sound great in theory but what about in actuality ?
No. I don't. I only want to have control ( a choice) on when to exit the stage.

And then maybe even, I want the option to be brought back so that I can be given the option to make the choice again.

That's real choice. Empirically understanding the consequences! An INFORMED choice.

If you end up on the other side and it sucks even worse than this place, you are going to regret it...

AlexW
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Perception and Consciousness

Post by AlexW » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:36 pm

Logik wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:12 am
And you will find me answering this question with "I am Logik" on more than one occasion.
Sure, I would also answer the question with "I am Alex" - at least in most regular conversations.
But, as JW Goethe once said "Two souls, alas, are housed within my breast..." - the true, eternal one and the one that has been born from thought (not sure if he meant it as I interpret it, but it doesn't matter)
Logik wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:12 am
Ironically, the only quote that comes to mind to the question of "Who am I?" is one from Batman.

It's not who you are underneath - it's what you do that defines you.
Shame Batman is not on this forum :-)

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