Ego - The False Center

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Ego - The False Center

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:18 am

Ego - The False Center
From
Beyond the Frontier of the Mind
by Osho

The first thing to be understood is what ego is. A child is born. A child is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self. And when a child is born the first thing he becomes aware of is not himself; the first thing he becomes aware of is the other. It is natural, because the eyes open outwards, the hands touch others, the ears listen to others, the tongue tastes food and the nose smells the outside. All these senses open outwards. That is what birth means. Birth means coming into this world, the world of the outside. So when a child is born, he is born into this world. He opens his eyes, sees others. 'Other' means the thou. He becomes aware of the mother first. Then, by and by, he becomes aware of his own body. That too is the other, that too belongs to the world. He is hungry and he feels the body; his need is satisfied, he forgets the body. This is how a child grows. First he becomes aware of you, thou, other, and then by and by, in contrast to you, thou, he becomes aware of himself. This awareness is a reflected awareness. He is not aware of who he is. He is simply aware of the mother and what she thinks about him. If she smiles, if she appreciates the child, if she says, "You are beautiful," if she hugs and kisses him, the child feels good about himself. Now an ego is born. Through appreciation, love, care, he feels he is good, he feels he is valuable, he feels he has some significance. A center is born. But this center is a reflected center. It is not his real being. He does not know who he is; he simply knows what others think about him. And this is the ego: the reflection, what others think. If nobody thinks that he is of any use, nobody appreciates him, nobody smiles, then too an ego is born: an ill ego; sad, rejected, like a wound; feeling inferior, worthless. This too is the ego. This too is a reflection. First the mother - and mother means the world in the beginning. Then others will join the mother, and the world goes on growing. And the more the world grows, the more complex the ego becomes, because many others' opinions are reflected. The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with others. If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But that is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn't mean that he will come to know the real self, no. The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must. One has to pass through it. It is a discipline. The real can be known only through the illusion. You cannot know the truth directly. First you have to know that which is not true. First you have to encounter the untrue. Through that encounter you become capable of knowing the truth. If you know the false as the false, truth will dawn upon you. Ego is a need; it is a social need, it is a social by-product. The society means all that is around you - not you, but all that is around you. All, minus you, is the society. And everybody reflects. You will go to school and the teacher will reflect who you are. You will be in friendship with other children and they will reflect who you are. By and by, everybody is adding to your ego, and everybody is trying to modify it in such a way that you don't become a problem to the society. They are not concerned with you. They are concerned with the society.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ego - The False Center

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:44 am

Society is concerned with itself, and that's how it should be.

They are not concerned that you should become a self-knower.

They are concerned that you should become an efficient part in the mechanism of the society. You should fit into the pattern. So they are trying to give you an ego that fits with the society.
They teach you morality. Morality means giving you an ego which will fit with the society. If you are immoral, you will always be a misfit somewhere or other. That's why we put criminals in the prisons - not that they have done something wrong, not that by putting them in the prisons we are going to improve them, no.

They simply don't fit. They are troublemakers. They have certain types of egos of which the society doesn't approve. If the society approves, everything is good.

One man kills somebody - he is a murderer.

And the same man in wartime kills thousands - he becomes a great hero.
The society is not bothered by a murder, but the murder should be
commited for the society - then it is okay. The society doesn't bother about morality.

Morality means only that you should fit with the society. If the society is at war, then the morality changes.

If the society is at peace, then there is a different morality.Morality is a social politics. It is diplomacy. And each child has to be brought up in such a way that he fits into the society, that's all.
Because society is interested in efficient members. Society is not interested that you should attain to self-knowledge.

The society creates an ego because the ego can be controlled and manipulated. The self can never be controlled or manipulated. Nobody has ever heard of the society controlling a self - not possible.

And the child needs a center; the child is completely unaware of his own center.

The society gives him a center and the child is by and by convinced that this is his center, the ego that society gives.

A child comes back to his home - if he has come first in his class, the whole family is happy. You hug and kiss him, and you take the child on your shoulders and dance and you say, "What a beautiful child! You are a pride to us." You are giving him an ego, a subtle ego. And if the child comes
home dejected, unsuccessful, a failure - he couldn't pass, or he has just been on the back bench - then nobody appreciates him and the child feels
rejected. He will try harder next time, because the center feels shaken.

Ego is always shaken, always in search of food, that somebody should appreciate it. That's why you continuously ask for attention.

You get the idea of who you are from others.

It is not a direct experience.

It is from others that you get the idea of who you are. They shape your center. This center is false, because you carry your real center. That is
nobody's business. Nobody shapes it.

You come with it.

You are born with it.

So you have two centers. One center you come with, which is given by existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is
created by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing - and it is a very great trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you.
You have to behave in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you.

You have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you have to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the society appreciate you, and if it doesn't, you ego will be shaken. And when the ego is shaken, you don't know where you are, who you are.

The others have given you the idea.

That idea is the ego.

Try to understand it as deeply as possible, because this has to be thrown.
And unless you throw it you will never be able to attain to the self.
Because you are addicted to the center, you cannot move, and you cannot look at the self.

And remember, there is going to be an interim period, an interval, when the ego will be shattered, when you will not know who you are, when you
will not know where you are going, when all boundaries will melt.

You will simply be confused, a chaos.

Because of this chaos, you are afraid to lose the ego. But it has to be so. One has to pass through the chaos before one attains to the real
center.

And if you are daring, the period will be small.

If you are afraid, and you again fall back to the ego, and you again start arranging it, then it can be very, very long; many lives can be
wasted.

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Dimebag
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Re: Ego - The False Center

Post by Dimebag » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:02 pm

Some interesting topics. I find your first post pretty accurate. The ego is constructed from reflections from other people. And no doubt the mother would be the first other, and without the ego, would of course be primary.

You then extend the idea of the constructed or reflected ego to the whole of society. Seems fair enough. As a young mind develops, it shifts its attention from its family to its peers, and it's self evaluation becomes a reflection of its peer group. In a sense this is where the idea of a hierarchy emerges. The "I" in relation to all others. Where do "I" fit in. If one feels themself reflected as low on the hierarchy, they feel submissive and lacking in power. Or at the other end of the scale, if they feel they are being reflected as high in the hierarchy, they feel dominant and powerful. This is where the ego wants to be. But the top is an unstable place to be, so maybe there is always a continual shifting at the top, like grains of sand settling.

Morality is concerned with the continued success of the group. When an outside group threatens the ingroup, it becomes morally virtuous to protect the group from the outside group, including murder. This explains why you perceive a shift in morality during war time. What you are really perceiving is the shrinking of the ingroup. The rules were always present, however the necessity to protect the ingroup became apparent when it was threatened.

You then mention that self and society are at odds. The attainment of the self is only possible by shattering the ego. The society requires the ego in order to remain functional within that society. But to remove the ego altogether would be to remove oneself from the society. You then have no relation to it. And it has no relation to you. This effectively places you in the out group. Not a good place to be, as we have previously mentioned. But as long as you pose no threat, then the society has no beef with the egoless self.

Dimebag
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Re: Ego - The False Center

Post by Dimebag » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:34 pm

If the ego is destroyed, does the other exist as well? Or is there no other, and only a singular entity with no separation between the self and the other?

If that is the case, how would a person in this state stop themselves being taken advantage of? An egoless person sees no boundary between themselves and anyone else, and therefore will envelop all within their reach. This places them in a very vulnerable position for someone with an ego, they could be exploited. Would you agree? Not a very good approach to ensure survival, and therefore pragmatically, not the best approach to ensure a species continues.

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Re: Ego - The False Center

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:44 pm

Dimebag wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:34 pm
If the ego is destroyed, does the other exist as well? Or is there no other, and only a singular entity with no separation between the self and the other?

If that is the case, how would a person in this state stop themselves being taken advantage of? An egoless person sees no boundary between themselves and anyone else, and therefore will envelop all within their reach. This places them in a very vulnerable position for someone with an ego, they could be exploited. Would you agree? Not a very good approach to ensure survival, and therefore pragmatically, not the best approach to ensure a species continues.
There is no such thing as an egoless person.

There is only Consciousness conscious of itself either as the infinite expressing itself finitely. Or as a finite 'thing' that is born and one day will die, the latter is an illusory expression within Infinite Consciousness expressing itself finitely that cannot die for it is unborn.

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What if dying is waking-up, and waking-up is dying?

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Ensuring survival is an automatic reflex in the instantaneous moment, one doesn't have to think about how when to cross a road in order not to get run over and killed, one simply knows by observing, it's similar to the flight or fight reflex when faced with danger by other human or animals. There is no thinking invloved. Thinking is within the dream of separation, the conceptual story of I...aka other.

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