The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:18 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:54 pm


What is situationally appropriate here, in a thread about Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, is to relate topics to his thoughts, per the title.
Yeah, I get that, but you know what it's like, subjects do tend to go off on a wild tangent sometimes, it doesn't bother me what is posted here. Yes, ideally, it's about the ideas of Nissy, but this thread is not the venue for a satsang meeting with the ghost of Nissargadata himself, it's a philosophy forum where all sorts of thinkers will turn up...I don't mind who turns up or what they have to say..I don't think there has to be a rule about what is spoken here.

But I'll respect what you want, and will keep in line when responding to your posts.



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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:27 pm

That’s an amazing response.
Rare.

However, it’s not my rule.
It’s a rule of rationality.
Ask around.
That things may stray is not cause for things to stray.

The end-point of the dualistic, intellectual self-enquiry method is to fit the absolute into a frame, and then at some point in the future (sages recommend after 7 years of silence) to communicate the contents of the frame in simple dualistic language, and/or silent presence. In other words, accept the dualistic limitations of conceptual opposites when communicating from the absolute.

It is an intellectual, rational, dualistic pursuit.

What is being communicated is ineffable, which of course is a contradiction.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:56 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:27 pm

"Uneducated though the Master is, his conversation is enligh-
tened to an extraordinary degree. Though born and brought up in
poverty, he is the richest of the rich, for he has the limitless wealth
of perennial knowledge, compared to which the most fabulous
treasures are mere tinsel. He is warm-hearted and tender,
shrewdly humorous, absolutely fearless and absolutely true —
inspiring, guiding and supporting all who come to him."

- ibid
The thing about the western man is that he has to realise that you don't need to have a PhD in order to ''know yourself''
The important thing is to ''know thyself'' ...first...and then all else will effortlessly fall into place as it should.

Academics are concerned with being someone, whereas the wise can be very creative and productive without having to apply that inner creativity and skill onto paper to prove their worthiness ... knowledge is already inbuilt within all of us equally that we are able to apply that knowledge and achieve just about anything we can think of.. putting it down on paper is just so that we don't forget what we already know...because we can be very forgetful, and is why all knowledge comes from a source that exists prior to our knowing of it, else we wouldn't know how to function or do anything. We are discovering ourselves only, the SELF that is already here before we discovered it.

Also, humans being gifted with a good pair of working hands has been our greatest asset so far. It's not so much to do with education, but all credit goes to the brilliance of consciousness that designed the hands in the first place..the hands that are able to write down our innate knowledge onto paper... we owe this intelligence to a higher reality, and we can tap into this intelligent consciousness because we are it.

But obviously we cannot ride a bike until we first learn the skills to ride the bike, but once we've mastered the skill, or any other skill in life, we then need to step up and serve humanity with our skills and do those jobs with pride and love and not feel like those jobs are just a means to make money and survive...and if we don't make as much money as we can then we will surely die..this mentality is doomed from the start, or even the mentality to say I'm more clever than you because I can do this and you can't, is doomed from the start...no, that's not the way forward, that sort of mentality causes segregation and competitiveness. . it's not good.

Are we willing to scrap money, and find a way to love going to work each day in the mindset of serving the whole of humanity and not just ourselves, or are we happy to continue to be competitive and be a slave to humanity for fear of lack, or fear of not being a someone in the world. When are we going to realise that we are immortal beings and that whatever it is we are doing at this present moment is just one of an infinite amount of experiences we are going to experience in eternity.

I don't think we are ready for that level of intelligence yet.



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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:07 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:27 pm
That’s an amazing response.
Rare.

However, it’s not my rule.
It’s a rule of rationality.
Ask around.
That things may stray is not cause for things to stray.

The end-point of the dualistic, intellectual self-enquiry method is to fit the absolute into a frame, and then at some point in the future (sages recommend after 7 years of silence) to communicate the contents of the frame in simple dualistic language, and/or silent presence. In other words, accept the dualistic limitations of conceptual opposites when communicating from the absolute.

It is an intellectual, rational, dualistic pursuit.

What is being communicated is ineffable, which of course is a contradiction.
Alright, I agree, we should have stipulated this to each other and others as a request to do this at the beginning of making the thread, you know me once I get going walker, I can't shut up, or stop writing..my mouth overflows with whats in my heart..lol :wink:

.

Shall we start again, a fresh start on a new thread?

.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:32 pm

“Don’t ask me practical questions. I cannot relate to them.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEcIO4sAvuE
43:30

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:07 pm

Since this obviously isn’t going to continue until you the read the book, perhaps begin here instead of page 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEcIO4sAvuE
45:38
“I am talking about the one principle that is untouched by anything in the universe.
“It is prior to the appearance of the I am.”


With these words, do you think Sri Nisargadatta is referring to thinking, as in, “I think, therefore I am,” as the one principle that is untouched by anything in the universe?

If yes, why?

If not, what is this one principle?

Have your assignments posted at your leisure, and consider if you deserve the grade you are going to give yourself.

:lol:

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:35 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:07 pm
Since this obviously isn’t going to continue until you the read the book, perhaps begin here instead of page 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEcIO4sAvuE
45:38
“I am talking about the one principle that is untouched by anything in the universe.
“It is prior to the appearance of the I am.”


With these words, do you think Sri Nisargadatta is referring to thinking, as in, “I think, therefore I am,” as the one principle that is untouched by anything in the universe?

If yes, why?

If not, what is this one principle?

I don't need to read the book, all we need to do is select a quote and we can discuss the quote...I've read many excerpts from the book anyway. I understand Nisargadatta's ideas...I once when out with a boy who was crazy about him..your not him are you? :wink: :lol: :shock:

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:56 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:07 pm
“I am talking about the one principle that is untouched by anything in the universe.
“It is prior to the appearance of the I am.”


With these words, do you think Sri Nisargadatta is referring to thinking, as in, “I think, therefore I am,” as the one principle that is untouched by anything in the universe?

If yes, why?

If not, what is this one principle?

Yes, I think that's what he is referring to...regarding the one principle...in that thought cannot touch this one principle which is the emptiness of my being.

I think Nissy was referring to the AM without an object...not the I AM subject object duality.....the AM being prior to the I...and not the I being prior to the AM..

The AM being beyond the I ...as being the one principle, the unborn pure awareness state that is the immortal unchanging constant...and the I AM state is on contact with the AM..aka I know I AM, as awareness becomes aware of itself, consciousness is born, aka the immaculate conception, aka knowledge of myself conceptually, as conceived.

Who was it that said only the mind is born not the YOU ...

YOU as in the pure awareness. YOU being the AM ... not the I AM of inference.

.

I think Descartes was right in his own way - he just got it the wrong way round. He said I think first so I must exist. But did Descartes realise that you can exist without the thought I exist, you do not need the thought I am, to know yourself. For example, in Nisargadata's quote when he says..you can have awareness without consciousness, but you cannot have consciousness without awareness.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:48 am

It hinges on the word, “exist.”

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:08 am

Walker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:48 am
It hinges on the word, “exist.”

Which hinges on the question who exists?

The I AM itself is Maya, illusion.

YOU exist, but not as a thought.

.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:57 am

?

Look more closely.

Under these conditions, you only exist as thoughts.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:57 am

Walker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:57 am
?

Look more closely.

Under these conditions, you only exist as thoughts.
?

Under conditions you exist as a thought.

Absent of condition ..existence IS.. but this ISness does not know of any other knower ?

And yet even that unconditioned knowing SELF ...has to be a thought too?

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:12 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:08 am
Walker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:48 am
It hinges on the word, “exist.”

Which hinges on the question who exists?

The I AM itself is Maya, illusion.

YOU exist, but not as a thought.

.
Under these conditions you exist only as thoughts.

You exist as the thoughts of others who are creating you from the words formed by your thoughts, and by what you cannot see.

The unseen causes the variance between the thoughts that formed the words, and the thoughts that are your existence, formed by the words.

The unseen can be many things unrelated to the present, such as memories and preconceptions.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:23 pm

Walker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:12 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:08 am
Walker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:48 am
It hinges on the word, “exist.”

Which hinges on the question who exists?

The I AM itself is Maya, illusion.

YOU exist, but not as a thought.

.
Under these conditions you exist only as thoughts.

You exist as the thoughts of others who are creating you from the words formed by your thoughts, and by what you cannot see.

The unseen causes the variance between the thoughts that formed the words, and the thoughts that are your existence, formed by the words.

The unseen can be many things unrelated to the present, such as memories and preconceptions.

Yes.


"To exist means to be something, a thing, a feeling, a thought, an idea. All existence is particular. Only being is universal, in the sense that every being is compatible with every other being. Existences clash, being – never. Existence means becoming, change, birth and death, and birth again, while in being there is silent peace."

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:31 pm

''There is no such thing as peace of mind. Mind means disturbance; restlessness itself is mind. Examine closely and you will see that the mind is seething with thoughts. It may occasionally go blank, but it does it for a time and reverts to its usual restlessness. ''

.

'' Watch your mind, how it comes into being, how it operates. As you watch your mind, you discover your self as the watcher. When you stand motionless, only watching, you discover your self as the light behind the watcher. ''



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