OuterLimits wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:01 pm
EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:38 am
I hereby challenge any Solipsistic or Advaitian Non-Dualist to convince me that the world is not real, using the very arguments you use to convince me that I'm merely a figment of your imagination, on yourself.
I'm holding a IPad, typing with my thumbs. What arguments can be given to completely destroy my trust in reality, that I am, but am not this or that, merely observing, a consciousness in a body in a larger world that is not of my own making, that lreexisted me, and will continue on long after you or I die?
I can investigate arguments with you only I exist, but want some convincing arguments. I can also accept arguments only you exist, and I am but a figment of your imagination, but in return I expect to have a lot of privledges, wealth, and sexy women bestowed upon me, some of it borderline.... no, outright fantastical. If you can do this, I will recognize only you exist, if only I exist, I want to know why my imagination sucks so bad so as to imagine you, and if neither of us exist, and only someone else exists, than I want to know what I never seemed to of been informed of this, being the last to know this sort of thing.
I am the demon who created this illusion you are in. I even stocked it with past memories. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to refute this from your own experience and knowledge. (Boom. Mic drop.)
Fail. You merely asserted a Dualism between the Demon and I exist, and that a Illusion is sourced in you, and not myself. So you proved my point, with drama and efficiency. Thank you.
Lacewing wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:29 pm
The questions that arise for me are: "Does it matter whether we are real or imagined?" and "If we were able to determine such a thing with certainty, how would it change our experience?" Would we give up? Would we enjoy it more? Would there no longer be any point to it? Does there NEED to be a point to it? Do we drive ourselves mad with our stories? Why not just enjoy being?
If I am imagined, then I can find out who or what sources me, and make things more appealing on a purely hendonistic level (at that point, what else matters save self flattery, such as a made up beliefs S57 has on believing in nothing and making his own meaning in a meaningless world). If all I am is self referential, then I have nothing to loose by gaining it all. The drive to be like Agent Smith or Mantrid is something to do, for a time. A longer term approach would be to waste away in the spoils of easy victories. Perhaps my Harem of 1000 women wouldn't be real, but it be as real as me, and if I gotta put up with me, why not have them too? In many senses, I would have just as meaningless and pointless of a existence either as a imagined pauper as a dragon flying playboy, but if I gotta go through with it, some reason and logic behind wanting the best of it as I laugh in the inevitable face of oblivion. Ethics and morality wouldn't matter as no species exist, no past or future, and the present even is a mirage of code. If I find pleasure in murder or cannabalism, so be it. I can jump into a lion's den at a zoo to pass my time. It doesn't matter. But I prefer the women over the lion's den, and beef steaks over human flesh.
But if I do exist, then the fractal rules of consciousness of a ever unveiling universe matters, as I exist, and am much less than the sum of what is observed, in time and place. Jumping in a lion pit is a really bad idea if I want to survive, and spescaping into a Ethics of making your own meaning is largely meaningless, as meaning would come less from volition than experience with externals, forming principles from it, deciding from it how visceral experience matches with those experiences, giving it ordered thought, constant revaluation frokmpain and gain, pleasure, distraction and loss.
So it matters a whole lot. But if Solipsists exist, I will fully embrace the figmentation of my existence being dependent upon me if they give me the goods delivered. If I am imagining my orgy of hot faced and bodied women, then they must see what I a, imagining too, and can deliver it in a way that feels concretely and consistently real to me, like this computer tablet feels real to me over time, always on me, in my hands, in must pocket, or next to me as I sleep (use it as a phone). Easiest way to prove Solipsism is real, and that we are all figments, is just to give us what we want, and we will shut up, and admit defeat. I'm not asking for much, not the whole world, just the fun part of it.