There ain't nobody in a body

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:27 pm
Life and death are states of existence that make a distinction between consciousness and non consciousness
So death is simply a transition from one to the other and in the grand scheme of things means nothing at all
Death is not a state of existence. That is a complete contradiction. You cannot BE dead.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:11 pm

Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:53 am
Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:22 am
Dontaskme wrote: No one ever gave the wild beasts or the little cute bunny rabbits a funeral. 🐇🦍🐅⚰️
The former were probably eaten but the latter have had loads of funerals.
I once attended a guinea pig's burial.
Westerners are so wasteful.
Apparently guinea pigs are delicious.

Dontaskme
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:36 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:27 pm
Life and death are states of existence that make a distinction between consciousness and non consciousness
So death is simply a transition from one to the other and in the grand scheme of things means nothing at all
Death is not a state of existence. That is a complete contradiction. You cannot BE dead.
You cannot BE alive either.

Aliveness, or Beingness, or Presence, or Awareness... is neither alive nor dead, rather, THIS is the stateless state, a contradiction in terms as conceived in this conception.

.

This is a conceptual truth that cannot be refuted, it is experiential self-evident in that there is no one to deny awareness... there is no one to be absent of awareness.

.

Walker
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Walker » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:04 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:36 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:27 pm
Life and death are states of existence that make a distinction between consciousness and non consciousness
So death is simply a transition from one to the other and in the grand scheme of things means nothing at all
Death is not a state of existence. That is a complete contradiction. You cannot BE dead.
You cannot BE alive either.

Aliveness, or Beingness, or Presence, or Awareness... is neither alive nor dead, rather, THIS is the stateless state, a contradiction in terms as conceived in this conception.

.

This is a conceptual truth that cannot be refuted, it is experiential self-evident in that there is no one to deny awareness... there is no one to be absent of awareness.

.
You can only be alive.

Death is a concept that you infer through observation, but cannot confirm via experience.

Dontaskme
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:17 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:04 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:36 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 pm


Death is not a state of existence. That is a complete contradiction. You cannot BE dead.
You cannot BE alive either.

Aliveness, or Beingness, or Presence, or Awareness... is neither alive nor dead, rather, THIS is the stateless state, a contradiction in terms as conceived in this conception.

.

This is a conceptual truth that cannot be refuted, it is experiential self-evident in that there is no one to deny awareness... there is no one to be absent of awareness.

.
You can only be alive.

Death is a concept that you infer through observation, but cannot confirm via experience.
Even being alive is a conceptual idea. Death and Life are the same state, they only differ in their appearance.

.

Walker
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Walker » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:29 pm

Life is experienced.

Death is conceptualized.

Dontaskme
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:26 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:29 pm
Life is experienced.

Death is conceptualized.
Every word is a concept.

Life is known only in relation to death not known...Reality being the ''Not Known Known''...that's why I said Life and Death are in the same moment, yet differ in appearance, one side is known the other side is not known.That which lives dies. That which dies lives.

Life or death is not an experience. An experience is an appearance in the stateless(death) state(life)

.

Walker
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Walker » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:25 pm

Words about death are concepts about a concept.

Words about life are concepts about experience.

Dontaskme
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:36 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:25 pm
Words about death are concepts about a concept.

Words about life are concepts about experience.
Image

Walker
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Walker » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:18 am

“Being needs no proofs – it proves all else.”

“Experience, however sublime, is not the real thing. By its very nature it comes and goes. Self-realization is not an acquisition. It is more of the nature of understanding. Once arrived at, it cannot be lost. On the other hand, consciousness is changeful, flowing, undergoing transformation from moment to moment. Do not hold on to consciousness and its contents. Consciousness held, ceases. To try to perpetuate a flash of insight, or a burst of happiness is destructive of what it wants to preserve. What comes must go. The permanent is beyond all comings and goings. Go to the root of all experience, to the sense of being. Beyond being and not being lies the immensity of the real. Try and try again.”

”There must be the desire (to try) first. When the desire is strong, the willingness to try will come. You do not need assurance of success, when the desire is strong. You are ready to gamble.”

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Dalek Prime
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:34 am
Dalek Prime wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:14 pm
DAM, are you a dualist?

Your mind and body are inextricably.linked. One comes into being, the other does. The body dies, the awareness does as well.
There is no such thing as saying..( ''there is no such 'state' as non-duality'' ).....it's like saying, (there is such a 'state' as nothingness.)

(state) being a conceptual description of some thing existing)

So, here is a Question for you.

There is something here right now that does not appear or disappear...is not born, therefore cannot die....what is that? ... the only way you can answer that question is by pointing to THAT using a concept, even though 'what that is' .. is not a concept..??

Without THAT...what ever that is....The idea of a Dalek Prime could never have appeared... honor and bow to THAT. For without that you are not.


Have fun.. :D

.
You're just telling me you fail to understand the non-identity problem for what it is not; a problem.

Talk all you like, your physicality creates your conscious awareness. No physical DAM, no DAM(n) consciousness.

Dontaskme
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:17 am

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 pm
You're just telling me you fail to understand the non-identity problem for what it is not; a problem.

Talk all you like, your physicality creates your conscious awareness. No physical DAM, no DAM(n) consciousness.
It's not me that fails, perhaps it's you failing to understand what I'm not failing to understand.

What about during deep unconscious sleep?

The consciousness of the physical body is absent during the sleep, but the physical body isn't absent is it?

There is no conscious absence of the physical body during deep sleep, but there is always a conscious absence of the physical body upon waking from deep sleep.And so it seems that the conscious awareness of the absent body during deep sleep does not come from the body itself, rather it is coming from a conscious memory of the body. So can we be certain that conscious memory is in the physical body? if it is, where does it go during deep sleep when there is no conscious awareness of the body, even though the body doesn't go anywhere.

It seems we are only aware of the body upon awakening from deep sleep when the memory of the body comes back online. If the memory wasn't a constant presence there wouldn't be any capacity to remember the body upon awakening from deep sleep. So the knowledge of the body must exist as a memory only. The body is known by conscious memory, not the other way around, the body does not know the body, it is NOT conscious of itself. In this scenario, it seems the body doesn't create the consciousness, the consciousness creates the body.

If there is no awareness of the body during deep sleep, who is it that is suddenly aware of the body upon awakening from sleep?
Surely it must be the same one awareness that must always be constantly present in both deep sleep and waking states unbroken -

Do we agree on that?

.
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 pm
your physicality creates your conscious awareness. No physical DAM, no DAM(n) consciousness.
Here it seems the unconscious physical body and the conscious awareness of that physical body are created in the same instant, namely NOW...of which neither can be absent being they are co-dependant being they are one and the same presence, always constantly present, infinitely for eternity.

Meaning nothing is born or can die...transform and change shape yes, but ultimately nothing is born nor will die.Since all there appears to be here is a memory... a constant remembering of what has past appearing to exist in the ever unfolding NOW.

.

.

Dalek Prime
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am

Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:07 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:17 am
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 pm
You're just telling me you fail to understand the non-identity problem for what it is not; a problem.

Talk all you like, your physicality creates your conscious awareness. No physical DAM, no DAM(n) consciousness.
It's not me that fails, perhaps it's you failing to understand what I'm not failing to understand.

What about during deep unconscious sleep?

The consciousness of the physical body is absent during the sleep, but the physical body isn't absent is it?

There is no conscious absence of the physical body during deep sleep, but there is always a conscious absence of the physical body upon waking from deep sleep.And so it seems that the conscious awareness of the absent body during deep sleep does not come from the body itself, rather it is coming from a conscious memory of the body. So can we be certain that conscious memory is in the physical body? if it is, where does it go during deep sleep when there is no conscious awareness of the body, even though the body doesn't go anywhere.

It seems we are only aware of the body upon awakening from deep sleep when the memory of the body comes back online. If the memory wasn't a constant presence there wouldn't be any capacity to remember the body upon awakening from deep sleep. So the knowledge of the body must exist as a memory only. The body is known by conscious memory, not the other way around, the body does not know the body, it is NOT conscious of itself. In this scenario, it seems the body doesn't create the consciousness, the consciousness creates the body.

If there is no awareness of the body during deep sleep, who is it that is suddenly aware of the body upon awakening from sleep?
Surely it must be the same one awareness that must always be constantly present in both deep sleep and waking states unbroken -

Do we agree on that?

.
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 pm
your physicality creates your conscious awareness. No physical DAM, no DAM(n) consciousness.
Here it seems the unconscious physical body and the conscious awareness of that physical body are created in the same instant, namely NOW...of which neither can be absent being they are co-dependant being they are one and the same presence, always constantly present, infinitely for eternity.

Meaning nothing is born or can die...transform and change shape yes, but ultimately nothing is born nor will die.Since all there appears to be here is a memory... a constant remembering of what has past appearing to exist in the ever unfolding NOW.

.

.
You were doing well, and then extrapolated wildly, where the extrapolation wasn't warranted.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3871
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Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:07 pm

You were doing well, and then extrapolated wildly, where the extrapolation wasn't warranted.
Who's the other one that would warrant the extrapolation?

.

Dalek Prime
Posts: 4257
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am

Re: There ain't nobody in a body

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:28 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:20 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:07 pm

You were doing well, and then extrapolated wildly, where the extrapolation wasn't warranted.
Who's the other one that would warrant the extrapolation?

.
You tell me.

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